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With no ball skills inside, you CAN"T run a good offense.

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by tilly, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. bigsky rooter

    bigsky rooter Freshman

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    Hope this isn't because I told people on this site that he had NOTHING to do with Simmons being the No. 1 pick out of LSU. I have some more thought on the future; watched Montverde-Oak Hill (a good team) yesterday. Payne looked much better than in the game with the CA school (name escapes me) a week ago and played much more. He can catch the ball and dunk. More after the game with Ranney.
     
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  2. 407king

    407king All American

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    He had a little mojo, we had the Sweet 16 run ended by the Zags the year before. But I thought the program had peaked under Billy after that spanking Manhattan gave us. Wasn't sure where we were headed. Great regular seasons but post-season flops.
     
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  3. 33hoop

    33hoop GC Hall of Fame

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    I don’t doubt his desire one bit and I think White is a high character guy. But, he wasn’t ready for a program of this level when he accepted the job. Foley thought he found a Donovan type in the making but there was a huge difference in White’s and Donovan’s background. One, Donovan played for a Hall of Fame coach and made the Final Four as a player. Two, Donovan was an assistant under that same coach at Kentucky. He saw what running a top level program took and had the experience first hand. White played at Ole Miss, never seeing the level of success as a player or as an assistant at the same school. White didn’t have the experience that Donovan had and he wasn’t ready for the Florida job. You don’t win back to back championships and go get a coach that you hope will grow into a good coach someday. That is what programs that have never had any sustained success do.
     
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  4. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Mike still has 10 SEC games and the SECT to play and is already ahead of Billy in most of your numbers....and one could argue a much tougher SEC right now then Billy's first 4 seasons. I mean it is like folks have no memory of how Billy was not really beloved until that 2000 run.
    Also you did not list Billy's terrible record vs top 25 teams...which he faced less of in a weaker SEC at the time.

    Billy did not coach against Pearl, Cal, Barnes, Howland, Martin etc. in his first 4 seasons either.

    But as for your numbers...

    Ranked Opponents:Mike 8-17 Billy 9-16
    Conference: Mike35-23 Billy 33-31
    SEC Tourney: Mike 1-3 Billy 3-4 .
    March Madness: Mike 4-2 Billy 7-2
    Record while ranked: Mike 27-16 Billy 30-11 (Almost all during one season)
    Top 10 teams:Mike 2-8 Billy 3-9
    Top 5 teams:Mike 0-4 Billy 2-4
    Florida State:Mike 0-4 Billy 2-2
    Games decided by 5 points or less: Mike 11-22 Billy 12-19
    Overall: Mike 80–46 (.635) Billy 78-52 (.600)
    SEC: 37–24 (.607) Billy 33-32

    And before we start with condition of the program stuff, Lets add this stat:
    5 years prior to Billy:
    Top 3 finish in SEC: 4
    SEC Championship: 1

    Final Four's 1

    5 years prior to Mike:
    Top 3 finish in SEC: 4
    SEC Championship: 2

    Final Four's 1

    So while no one is suggesting Billy inherited the same caliber program as Mike, the recent history was very similar.

    With 80 wins Mike White is the winningest coach in UF history after 4 seasons...and he will add several to his record before the season ends.

     
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  5. 33hoop

    33hoop GC Hall of Fame

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    The thing you are overlooking is that Donovan had to build this basketball program from nothing. Florida had gone to one Final Four in the program’s history. Kruger left him with a bare cupboard when he bolted. White has the luxury of coming into a program that gained respectability because of Donovan’s accomplishments. Huge difference and not one to overlook. Recruiting after Donovan built the program has to be a lot easier now than when Donovan started.
     
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  6. spike718

    spike718 GC Legend

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    Remember that well. Driving in Miami after we got bounced by Manhattan the local sports shows were lit up with gator fans calling in wanting billy canned. And I wasn’t disagreeing with them. My how things turned out. And how many in gator nation felt about billy at that point pre 2004.
     
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  7. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    I did not overlook that. I actually mentioned it. But recruiting is not what Mike is getting killed for by some here.
     
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  8. spike718

    spike718 GC Legend

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    You’d think recruiting would be easier. But as everyone now sees...a lot more shoe money getting spent on high school players the last 10 years compared to late 90s when billy did his best recruiting work. That cash influx to players was one of the reasons Donovan left UF. He didn’t seem to be one playing that game. Nor does white. Probably no coincidence that the the first recruiting class post fbi investigation White has a great class coming in. While still not even the playing field for recruiting certainly got better for at least one season until they find another way to pay kids.

    Without as much cheating White is recruiting better.
     
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  9. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    I disagree on a few things here, but that’s ok. I think white had a very solid coaching background. He coached under Rod Barnes at Ole Miss... a guy who had won the Naismith Coach of the Year award.
    The teams during whites tenure there won the sec west a couple times and went to the tourney I believe 4x.
    He coached some excellent players and teams.
    As I player, he was on an ole miss team that went to the tourney 3x... including that 4 seed that lost to valpo.

    So he coached great teams, under a great coach .... and had similar experiences as a player. And all within the sec.

    Still, I have to ask: who would you have hired?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
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  10. GatorLurker

    GatorLurker VIP Member

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    Was anything new said in this thread that I could not have guessed?

    I think that reading this from the beginning might be time wasted that I can never get back.

    Is it more than just "we need an old-school 5" versus a more modern approach to the game?

    If so, let me know.
     
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  11. 33hoop

    33hoop GC Hall of Fame

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    I’m not sure to be honest but there were better candidates, I’m sure of that. $2 million a year is nothing to sneeze at and it could have swayed some coaches that would have been more prepared for a program at this level.
     
  12. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Well, you are looking for some elite-program type background... so you narrow the pool considerably.
    But even without that criteria, I think you would be surprised at the options.
    Remember, White wasn’t some unknown. Both UT and Mizzou offered him their jobs previously.
    My short list at the was Mike White and Chris Mack.
     
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  13. 407king

    407king All American

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    Think that was reportedly Foley's short list too.
     
  14. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Good list!

    Maybe he was listening to a really smart, handsome and charming internet poster! :)
     
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  15. 33hoop

    33hoop GC Hall of Fame

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    Out of the two, I’d rather have Mack. But the list was a bit bigger than that of potential coaches.
     
  16. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Perhaps... give me a name.

    Mack wasn’t takin the job. Had a good thing going at Xavier, and seemed destined to stay in that region. I would have been very happy with Mack, though.

    The popular names at the time, were of course... Shaka and Miller. There was thought we could pull shaka from his Texas contract. And Miller was at Dayton.
    I wanted absolutely no part of Miller.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
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  17. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl GC Hall of Fame

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    I get the impression you weren't around to pay attention during the transition from Kruger to Donovan.
     
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  18. BA69MA72

    BA69MA72 All American

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    Should be improved roster next year. We’ll see if there is enough improvement the following year to continue. BB coaches get 5 years unless there is something fishy going on in the program
     
  19. Matherly87

    Matherly87 GC Hall of Fame

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    Slow down here AKA. I recall Shai was a 4 star when he verbally committed to us and quickly moved up to a high 4 star and became a 5 star when Kentucky came a calling. My scouting buddy was all over him before he committed and was saying he was one of the best PGs in the country well before many were talking about him. He might of been a 3 star as a sophomore when ranking services are just starting their reviews but as a Gator he committed as a 4 star.
     
  20. Matherly87

    Matherly87 GC Hall of Fame

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    AKA I really like your views, opinions and posts so much that I hope my opinion helps you adjust your forecast on next year. I don't agree that we will see a complete roster next year at this point. You are probably saying this hoping for CMW sake that he will have his best coaching opportunity.
    It is possible we might but consider the unknowns. 1) We currently have one spot to fill and I have suggested several times how badly we need a PF and the lack of prospects out there. 2) Gak and Stone are hopeful to return but neither is ready at this point. Either one could have extend rehab and limit their effort to return. 3) Other players like Okauru, Ballard or Stokes could transfer out. I hope they don't but with the talent coming in even one of them leaving could prevent a full roster. 4) We can't assume we will get a big man grad transfer at the PF or C position. We definitely don't need another guard or wing player. So the last open position must be used on a post player or wait until next year.
    My point is next year's team will revolve around who comes in and starts or is back up at the PF. Johnson is great at what does but he can't do it all with his size. Stone or Stokes are unknowns at this point which leaves a glaring opening that someone needs to fill. So are we set next year with a complete roster? I don't think so.
    That being said, if we could somehow miraculously get Precious Achuiwa, we would have a Top 10 team next year.
     
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