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Windmills advanced for Marthas Vineyard.

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    Aug 26, 2008
    Some really monstrous offshore windfarms being built these days. Truly engineering marvels. Form a 10k foot level, what happens when humans extract all that energy from mother nature in the form of wind or tidal power generation?

    If slowing down the gulf stream has negative consequences on climate and the environment in general, (and I agree it does) how is slowing down the natural flow of wind or tides any different?

    Dogger Bank's giant turbines herald a wind of change in UK industry | Business | The Guardian

    Orsted says world's second-largest offshore wind farm is ready to go (yahoo.com)

    Offshore wind dealmaking ploughs on ahead of busy 2021 | Reuters Events | Renewables
  2. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 16, 2007
    “Extracting all the wind”? Is this an attempt at a Trumpism?
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  3. leftcoastgator

    leftcoastgator Ambivalent Zealot Premium Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Sonoma, CA
    Are you really worrying about all those windmills depleting the flow of wind? We'll all be dead from windmill cancer long before that happens.
    • Funny Funny x 14
  4. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Even if we powered all of humanity by wind power it would be less than a drop of water in lake so I wouldn’t worry. Winds travel at much greater speeds above the ground and windmill territory too. We’ve erected millions of skyscrapers and other buildings across the globe and we’ve cut down and replanted trillions of trees that could also affect wind too.

    At any rate, wind is really just solar power; it is constantly powered/renewed by the sun.
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  5. thegator92

    thegator92 Premium Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Windmills grind grain. They literally use the power of the wind to turn stones or other materals that crush grains, called milling. Perhaps you mean wind turbines? And the effect on the wind is infinitesimal.
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    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 13, 2007
    never heard it mentioned, Interesting thought. I think of how small offshore turbines are in relation to - say an ocean. Probably need to worry more about OffShore Drillers.
  7. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    Aug 26, 2008
    Cool. So wind and tidal power are infinite sinks not subject to disruption. Ok.
  8. danmann65

    danmann65 GC Hall of Fame

    May 22, 2015
    Not quite infinite but close. I imagine we could increase harvesting wind by a billion percent and tidal by trillions and we might have a noticeable impact but less than that we are good.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    I mean an entire field of turbines is still like 95% open space. So they dont even really disrupt flow within their own field. Much less the 99.9999999999999999999999999999% of the planets airspace that they dont occupy.
  10. cluckugator

    cluckugator VIP Member

    Aug 16, 2007
    I’ll bring some positivity to this thread. I’m a huge fan of fracking and wind power. Anything that moves us away from coal is a positive. Will be plenty of bumps along the way, but moving forward not backward on energy IMHO.

    And H stands for Humble not Honest b/c I don’t really know much on the side subject.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. phatGator

    phatGator GC Hall of Fame

    Dec 3, 2007
    Dayton, Ohio
    Windmills also pump water from low-lying areas up into canals.
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  12. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 16, 2007
    That is the point of “renewable” energy. By definition you can’t “use them up”. There’s probably some theoretical limit to how much power you can get from them, and with wind it is obviously dependent on weather (wind wouldn’t be 100% clockwork, like the tides). This an interesting concern when we literally haven’t even scratched the surface yet.

    I think the issue with huge wind farms would be eventually running into land use issues, rather than “harvesting all the wind”. I thought this guy was being sarcastic or making fun of Trump lol.

    Same deal with tidal energy really, but this is not even something this country even seems involved in. Apparently South Korea is big on it. Little odd how we’d be concerned with “using up all the tides” when at present we are effectively at zero production of this type of energy (maybe a little too experimental or expensive?).
  13. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Let's all bow our heads in remembrance of all those poor seagulls that gave their lives so unselfishly so that people on the coast can keep their thermostats at 72 in the summer.
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  14. leftcoastgator

    leftcoastgator Ambivalent Zealot Premium Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Sonoma, CA
    Maybe we can make up for the depleted winds by building gigantic gasoline-powered fans?
    • Funny Funny x 4
  15. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    Nov 25, 2017
    Well, everyone should worry about too much cutting wind. Except we are all wearing masks, so maybe it is more tolerable.
    • Funny Funny x 3
  16. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 3, 2007
    My favorite alternative energy story is one told to me by a German engineer, who was complaining about the high cost of electricity in Germany ($0.28/kWh equivalent), and the government support for alternatives (at an even higher rate). Utility regulators were starting to realize that people were generating solar power at night. Upon investigation, people were discovered to have placed conventional lighting on their roofs to continue generating electricity after the sun had gone to bed. I don't know how they broke even, because any energy conversion system is going to lose some energy in the transition.

    To the O.P.'s concern, I seriously doubt we extract more than a fraction of a percent of the earth's wind or solar power. The entire U.S. could meet its needs for electricity with a solar farm one fourth the size of Florida. The Three Gorges Dam stores enough water at a high elevation that a physicist can calculate how much the earth's rotation slows down (0.06 microseconds per year, or a second every 16 million years) from the increase in elevation of a large mass of water.

    Chinese Dam Slows Down Earth's Rotation | Kinetica

    The Gulf Stream is an entirely different concern, as relatively small changes in temperature can essentially stop the circulation (it has happened before, 15,000 years ago) and massive amounts of aquatic wildlife will die off, and agriculture would become more difficult. Europe's temperatures would drop 10 degrees C, making their winters much colder, and their farming much less productive. The east coast of the U.S. would be hit by massive flooding in the coastal areas. The areas away from the tropics would get colder, while the tropics get even hotter and less hospitable. All of humanity would probably try to converge on a highly habitable zone between these extremes, as people starve from all of the failed agriculture.

    What If the Gulf Stream Stopped?
  17. l_boy

    l_boy GC Hall of Fame

    Jan 6, 2009
    Maybe we can use wind turbines to power giant fans to cool the earth down.
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  18. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Since the tides are a result of lunar gravity, it would seem that the tides would be an infinite source of power.
  19. gatorpika

    gatorpika GC Hall of Fame

    Sep 14, 2008
    The problem with wind power isnt running out of wind, it's that it's the least efficient zero carbon generator of power, uses a lot of materials to build a turbine which does emit carbon, has intermittency issues and is expensive to maintain. It will be part of the future mix, but mostly in some specific areas where it makes sense like offshore in the north sea.
  20. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 16, 2007
    Well, yeah.

    You aren’t going to build tidal energy power plants in Kansas any more than you are going to build wind farms in central FL or solar fields in Alaska.

    There are midwestern and plains states where wind works. It’s been proven to work. Doesn’t have to be just “offshore”.

    Arizona and FL are states where solar can have more of an impact.

    I’m not even aware of any states trying out tidal energy, but the first requirement would obviously be a coast line.

    This ain’t rocket surgery damnit.