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Will FSU and Clemson join the SEC?

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by Tolbert1906, Jul 26, 2021.

  1. thale410

    thale410 GC Hall of Fame

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    ND is definitely in a great spot with all this re-organization. Depending on how things play out, it may ultimately be in the ACC's interest to allow ND to join, pay them a .5 media share, and allow them to keep their home game TV contract with NBC separate from the rest of the league.
     
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  2. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes, that is correct. I was specifically addressing football and the poster who seemed to be suggesting that Notre Dame would have to find a a new conference if the ACC dissolved. I guess for the other sports that's true that they'd need another conference, but like you, I think Notre Dame will remain independent as long as they can. If they're forced to join a conference for football, I think any of the remaining conferences would fight to get them.
     
  3. ETGator1

    ETGator1 GC Hall of Fame

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    The B1G would poach both North Carolina and Virginia in a New York Minute. For the B1G, it would be a seismic shift the equal of the SEC getting Oklahoma and Texas, maybe more as the SEC already had Texas A&M.

    When the SEC is talked about in expansion up the east coast for furtherance of the television footprint, there is a reason why NC State, Virginia Tech, and now West Virginia are mentioned. The likelihood of North Carolina and Virginia choosing the SEC over the B1G is small.

    Clemson and Florida State? Why? The nolies made their bed when they snubbed the SEC for the ACC. Both would be great SEC additions for football, but that about it. The same applies to Miami.

    Me? I don't see the ACC affiliating with the PAC 12. The ACC and SEC are far more likely to form an alliance while possibly bringing in Nebraska to reactivate the older and best Big 8/12 and SWC rivalries and possibly a few more cherry picked programs to round out the docket. The B1G and PAC 12 are thicker than thieves. They are far more likely to form an alliance out of similarity of views and history, see Rose Bowl and scheduling.

    In the end, expansion of the CFP to 12 teams may be the reason the ACC/SEC and the B1G/PAC 12 go their own ways for a while. There is already B1G talk, Jim Delaney of Ohio State specifically, of delaying further playoff talks due to the move of Oklahoma and Texas to the SEC. MiniMe PAC 12 will soon pile on with the B1G. When that happens, the CFP 12 playoff will rollover the B1G/PAC 12. The tooth paste is out of the tube and there is no putting it back in the tube. Who wins this battle? The ACC/SEC as ESPN/ABC will line up with their biggest college football partners. That is not the B1G/PAC 12. If there is a split, it won't last long. I'm thinking the B1G/PAC 12 will do exactly what Texas A&M did on Thursday. They will go along for inclusion and the money. Bottom line, the SEC is now calling the shots.
     
  4. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    I agree that UNC and UVA are 2 schools that are likely at or near the top of the Big-10's wish list, but not sure UNC/UVA to the Big10 would be a "seismic shift the equal of the SEC getting Oklahoma and Texas" at least not for football, which is the financial driver. But they would be huge adds for the Big-10 in terms of basketball.

    I may be wrong, but I think something special would happen to UNC football in the SEC that wouldn't happen in the Big-10. Something like what's happened with Texas A&M. Being the only program in the SEC recruiting in a good football recruiting ground like NC, would take their football program to a new level. I'm not sure how much they'd win, but they'd have their choice of NC recruits. UVA, not so much. Football will never be a big deal at UVA.

    I don't ever recall WVU being mentioned as an SEC candidate. They pitched themselves hard to the SEC several years back but the SEC had no interest. As far as TV footprint, that was clearly the top driver in conference expansion for the SEC a few years back. It's still important, but not quite what it was, now that the SEC already has a great TV deal in place. In 2014, the SEC Network was getting $1.40 per home in every state in the SEC footprint. I'd guess that number is higher now. So when it comes to expansion, which state do you think looks more attractive to the SEC - NC's 10.5 million or WV's $1.8 million? This is part of the same reason that FSU and Clemson aren't favorable candidates. They don't add carriage. Texas had advantages outside of TV carriage.

    Carriage is a much bigger issue right now for the Pac-12 and ACC. The Pac-12 still hasn't been able to get a carriage deal. ACC has a carriage deal but I believe it's pennies on the dollar to the SEC Network's deal.
     
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  5. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

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    Maybe back in the late ‘80’s or early ‘90’s, but I do not remember UVA threatening to make the jump. The ACC is perfect for UVA. Mostly southern schools with good academics and decent athletic programs. UVA is serious about basketball and baseball. The rest they just want to be respectable in and they are happy.

    The last ACC grant of rights happened because FSU and Clemson were looking to jump. Long story short, FSU’s President wanted the Big 10 and the Boosters wanted the SEC or realignment with the Big 12. Once the Big 10 was off the board, the FSU President signed over the grant of rights before the Boosters had a chance to see what the other options were. It did not go over well and why that President is now at Penn State.
     
  6. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

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    The thing to remember about a lot of the ACC blue blood programs is that they are academic institutions first and foremost. Football and athletics are nice but these schools and their professors and alumni care more about their academic standing then the income their athletic departments bring in.

    They are also very snobbish. They do not want to be associated with schools like Arkansas and Mississippi State. They view themselves as elite academic institutions and don’t want to do anything to tarnish that perception.

    The Big 10 is probably a better academic fit but the SEC is more of a cultural fit. The ACC is both which is why they will likely try and stay in the conference as long as it remains a viable option.
     
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  7. ETGator1

    ETGator1 GC Hall of Fame

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    With the Big 12 basically becoming DOA as a P5 conference, West Virginia will have to land somewhere. I'm thinking the ACC or the SEC. I think they would prefer the ACC, but does the ACC feel the same way?

    I think we are likely to end up with 4 major conferences, a new P4 consisting of the ACC, B1G, PAC, and SEC with roughly the same number of programs as the P5 plus Notre Dame and BYU. The current Big 12 will mostly get assimilated or move to the AAC. A few in the AAC may get a ticket up to the P4 to replace anyone choosing to move down, say being left out of the new alignments. Can you imagine Kansas basketball playing in the AAC? Wowzer!
     
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  8. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

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    If the ACC had any sense at all, it would swoop in and try and collect some of the remains of Big 12 and expand its footprint. OSU, Baylor, and TCU are decent football programs along with WVU. The issue is that ACC blue bloods like the conference as is and are not that interested in expanding if they do not have to.

    The one question I do have is what was A&M promised to make them vote for allowing Texas into the conference. That had to have been like serving your best meal and booze to the guy that just stole your wife and kids at your house. I’m guessing but I think it might have been that the SEC is going big with expansion and a lot of schools are going to have to vote for things they don’t like.
     
  9. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    That depends on the long term plan, which will likely be determined by the SEC and Big-10. If they say 4 conferences, with 2 of them being considerably weaker is okay, then that will likely be the case. If they decide they want just 3 super conferences with 16-18 team each, that will be the case and some teams are going to get left out. WVU could very well be one of the teams left out.

    Hard to say but I seriously don't see any scenario where they pull any AAC or CUSA teams up. I believe this whole thing is largely going to be driven by the historical powers wanting an expanded playoff but not wanting to expand the field to include AAC, CUSA or other teams. In my opinion, either they restructure the existing teams from the Big-12 into the ACC and Pac-12 with a handful of Big-12 teams being forced to move down out of P4 conferences, or they take a bigger step and push even more of the Big-12 and ACC recent additions out of the equation.

    But right now, nobody really knows the master plan, if there even is one yet.
     
  10. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't think they offered Texas A&M anything. I don't think they had to. They just had to let them grumble and groan a little to appease their fan base and then realize that whether they like it or not, they're going to make a whole lot more money with Texas and OU in the SEC then they even are now. Plus, what choice did they really have? Was leaving the SEC because they got their feelings hurt really an option?
     
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  11. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

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    I would disagree. A&M has more money than God. They care more about screwing Texas than they do about making more money. They would go out of their way and spend a lot of money to ruin Texas’ fortunes. A&M loved being the only Texas team in the SEC. it was the one big thing they had over Texas and the fact they pulled that one over Texas’ objections gave them more pleasure than anything else. That was not something they were going to just give up without a fight unless they were convinced it was for something more than money.
     
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  12. Wanne15

    Wanne15 GC Hall of Fame

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    Vandy is dead weight and paid for being that. They don’t even attempt to be good at football but they take the cash every year. I’d kick them to the curb. They are just a drain on the conference from an athlhletic standpoint. It would be fine if they dropped football and wanted to stay in the conference.
     
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  13. Wanne15

    Wanne15 GC Hall of Fame

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    I wish they would though
     
  14. spike718

    spike718 GC Hall of Fame

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    A conference touting The fact that a college has an AAU membership is like UF telling recruits we are top 10 in football and academics.
     
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  15. BA69MA72

    BA69MA72 GC Legend

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    I’ve participated in several sessions with recruits and that’s exactly what we tell them (athletic program, not just football). The message isn’t so much for 17-18 yr-olds, but for parents and guardians.
     
  16. spike718

    spike718 GC Hall of Fame

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    oh I know we tell them. Doesn’t seem that they care is the problem.

    im more saying that we are selling something that doesn’t resonate and need a different sales pitch. Same as what it means to be an AAU school. Most people don’t care.
     
  17. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    Same footprint as UF and USCe... I'd rather (if we ever expand again, though I do NOT want more of expansion) that we just get UNC, NC St., Virginia and Virginia tech. But I doubt that adding those 4 teams would increase our per SEC team payout much if at all...

    But hail to the no on "UFS" and Clemson...
     
  18. Tito22

    Tito22 GC Hall of Fame

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    Clemson would slap the s--t out of damn near everyone in the SEC on a weekly basis. Don't kid yourself.
     
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  19. BA69MA72

    BA69MA72 GC Legend

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    It’s important enough that the legislature (not known as free spenders) keep giving UF enhancement funds to maintain or improve its academic standing. I understand this is a football board and that is primarily what interests the participants, but Lockheed Martin, Disney, Publix, Carnival, etc are more concerned about their professional/managerial work force
     
  20. bonpear

    bonpear Sophomore

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    I don’t see the ACC taking West Virginia because of the academics. They plugged their nose and took Louisville because they were in desperation mode after Maryland left and FSU and Clemson were actively looking to leave. But even Louisville is 160 or so in the US News and World Report ranking. There is no other ACC team over 80 with most being top 60 including FSU.

    I took a look at the US News and World Report rankings and you can see roughly where the cutoff is for ACC and Big Ten schools. With one exception per conference (Nebraska and Louisville) where they plugged their nose and took an academic dumpheap, no ACC or Big Ten team is below Iowa’s 88th. Conversely, if Iowa were in the SEC it would rank 5th in the current SEC and 6th in the NuSEC.

    According to US News, here’s the academic standing of the combined ACC, SEC and Big Ten with the ACC schools in bold and SEC underlined and italicized.

    Northwestern 9th
    Duke 12th
    Vanderbilt 14th
    Notre Dame 19th
    Michigan 24th
    Virginia 26th
    North Carolina 28th
    Wake Forest 28th

    Florida 30th
    Boston College 35th
    Georgia Tech 35th

    Wisconsin 42nd
    Texas 42nd
    Illinois 47th
    Georgia 47th
    Miami 49th
    Ohio State 53rd
    Purdue 53rd
    Florida State 58th
    Syracuse 58th
    Pittsburgh 58th

    Maryland 58th
    Penn State 63rd
    Rutgers 63rd
    Minnesota 66th
    Texas A&M 66th
    Clemson 74th
    Virginia Tech 74th

    Indiana 76th
    Michigan State 80th
    NC State 80th
    Iowa 88th
    Auburn 97th
    Tennessee 112th
    South Carolina 118th
    Missouri 124th

    Nebraska 133rd
    Kentucky 133rd
    Oklahoma 133rd
    Alabama 143rd
    Louisiana State 153rd
    Arkansas 160th
    Mississippi 160th

    Louisville 176th
    Mississippi State 206th

    Essentially other than the one outlier taken for different reasons (Louisville in a panic to patch the hole left by Maryland and Nebraska because they have a tremendous football history and giant tv watching fan base despite being in a corn state), it would be more correct to say Florida, Texas, Georgia and Vandy (aka the SEC schools that don’t suck academically) belong in the ACC or Big Ten as opposed to saying FSU or Clemson or belong in the SEC.

    And for those Big Ten and ACC fans advocating for West Virginia to be added…..

    West Virginia 241st

    Cincy isn’t very good either but at least they’re just a few spots down from Nebraska at 143rd.

    Kansas, which is a school I see lots of Big Ten fans clamoring over, is only ranked 124th. Okie State is 187th. Iowa State is 118th. Texas Tech is 217th. The University of South Florida is 108th and the other end of the I-4 War the University of Central Florida is 160th. Houston is 160th.

    The only schools that are left in the Big 12 that are Big Ten and ACC worthy are Baylor which is only 76th and Texas Christian which is 80th. BYU which desperately needs a conference is 80th as well and those three hang as bottom end ACC schools academically. But do those three REALLY move the meter when it comes to football. Not really.

    That’s why I think if the ACC wants to survive it needs to be ultraggressive and talk to the PAC about merging their better schools into a Coastal or Oceanic conference. The PAC has a lot of schools that are ACC worthy (USC is 24th, UCLA is 20th, Cal is 22nd, Stanford is 6th, and Washington is 58th). Only Arizona at 93rd, Utah at 97th, ASU at 103rd, Oregon at 103rd, Colorado at 103rd, Oregon State at 153rd, and Washington State at 176th are not ACCworthy and maybe if you’re the ACC you just hold your breath and take Arizona and Oregon anyways for the tv coverage and because they’re not THAT far off.
     
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