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Will FSU and Clemson join the SEC?

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by Tolbert1906, Jul 26, 2021.

  1. Re UVa, Crusher, you may be correct with respect to their culture by and large. You *may* be, but I'm not certain.

    But the taxpayers of Virginia? Not so much.

    And who makes UVa possible, Crusher?

    Maryland forgot they are South of the Mason-Dixon. I highly doubt UVa will make a similar mistake.

    A bunch of fools talked this kind of craziness about UT-Austin.

    You see how that turned out, right?

    Finally, the SEC loves Nashville and trips to play Vandy.

    Vanderbilt will never be traded, never be booted, period.
     
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  2. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole GC Hall of Fame

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    I would be extremely shocked if UVA left the ACC. Even if it the ACC lifeless body was on the floor after the SEC and Big 10 raided it, UVA would still be trying to give it mouth to mouth and calling for the paddles.

    UVA likes being the ACC with the other ACC blue blooded academic schools like UNC, Duke, GaTech, etc.
     
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  3. bonpear

    bonpear Sophomore

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    It’s not going to happen like this but let’s say you could just take your pick of the best 20 schools in the current ACC and the near future SEC (so including Texas and Oklahoma), you wouldn’t pitch Vanderbilt and Miss State at the very least? I’d probably strongly consider ditching Kentucky and Ole Miss as well.

    From the near future SEC you would obviously keep Texas, Oklahoma, Bama, the Barn, Jawja, Florida, LSU, aTm, Tennessee, and South Carolina. Those ten are no brainers. I think Arkansas in the new world of openly buying players will start to excel as the state has the largest percentage of hundred millionaires per Capita thanks to Walmart. So I would take them as my number 11. And Missouri is pretty dominant in a state with two large metro areas, so I would go ahead and take them as my number 12.

    Then from the ACC, FSU, Clemson and Virginia Tech are no brainers as discussed before so that brings us to 15 with 5 slots. I do think you would want at least one North Carolina school although I know given the choice UNC would choose the Big Ten and its academic prowess over the SEC which is why I said NC State before. So I’ll stick with NC State as my 16th.

    Similarly UVA would choose the Big Ten and vice versa, I have no doubts, but they are not as valuable as Virginia Tech anyways. As much as I like Pitt as it has a solid football history, is better academically than Penn State and is located in a large Metro area which will help boost it tremendously in the NIL era…I would assume they are a foregone conclusion to go the Big Ten as well. So I assume UVA, UNC and Pitt will never come to the SEC anyways so best to strike them from the list now. Similarly, there is zero chance that Notre Dame would join the SEC.

    So with 4 slots to go that leaves Miami, Georgia Tech, Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Louisville, Syracuse, Boston College, Ole Miss and Miss State. Of these scraps, I’d say Georgia Tech would be my favorite. A chance to solidify Atlanta as a tv market plus SEC teams and their alumni would love to play in Atlanta frequently. Plus being in Atlanta will only help boost GT in the near future especially with their long history and relatively recent Natty (1990) compared to schools like aTm, Jawja and Arkansas. So GT would be my 17th.

    For the 18th, I like Louisville. The main reason they didn’t get in the ACC sooner and were never considered by the Big Ten is their incredibly poor academics (down with Ole Miss and Miss State) and their incessant cheating. LOL, but poor academics and incessant cheating, if that doesn’t sound like an SEC team I don’t know what does. Louisville has a great recent basketball tradition and their football would likely become dominant in the NIL era as they’ve frequently had solid teams without it and being in a larger metro area will help boost it.

    So that leaves 2 spots with Miami, Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Boston College, Syracuse, Ole Miss and Miss State remaining. While Miami has a putrid fan base that never travels and the NuSEC would have Florida well covered by having UF and FSU in it…Miami does have a great recentish (80-early 00s) history and their big games always do well on tv ratings. Plus now that we’re in the NIL era…I’m afraid being in the Miami Metra Area is a huge advantage and they will quickly climb back into a dominant form (yes I think their current coach sucks and that will hold them back a bit, but with unregulated money out in the open…they’re a ticking time bomb in my mind). So for those reasons (plus to keep Miami from going to the Big Ten where they would be warmly accepted) I would have Miami as my 19th.

    So with only one spot remaining, I’m actually kind of tempted to go with Duke for the basketball and to help solidify North Carolina. But Kentucky and Ole Miss have too much SEC tradition and pull to go with Duke over them. And honestly, this is where I’d start to say, “Hey! Why not 22 instead of 20 and take all of these.” But for some reason 20 seems to be the expected end number. Ole Miss would seem the logical choice mainly to keep an SEC school in Mississippi even though it’s a small almost meaningless state. But if you let Kentucky go, there’s a chance the Big Ten might swoop in and take it.

    So the 20th pick really is a tough choice, but I’d probably stick with Ole Miss just for the matchups and history.
     
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  4. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    Wasn't the fact that GT and UVA we're in serious talks a few years ago with the Big-10 what pushed the ACC to force the GOR on the ACC members for immediate signature? I understood that the GOR was a pre-emptive strike to keep UVA and GT from leaving.
     
  5. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    No schools from the SEC or any other P5 conference are ever going to be KICKED OUT of a conference, especially a founding member! That will not happen and would be a really bad move for any conference to make. The only time I recall that ever happening was when Temple was kicked out of the Big East because it consistently failed to meet the attendance requirements they agreed to. But they had cause to vote them out.

    That's why when I have mentioned the ACC and Pac-12 eventually becoming the 3rd super conference, I say there will not be a merger of the conferences. The schools that become the 3rd super conference will have to voluntarily leave their respective conferences and form a brand new conference. Granted, those schools leaving the ACC and Pac-12 will effectively kill those conferences, but thats the only way they can do it without taking everybody.
     
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  6. bonpear

    bonpear Sophomore

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    It was the THREAT of that occurring as well as the THREAT of FSU, Clemson and possibly Miami leaving for the Big 12. How serious were those threats? No one knows other than a few school leaders.
     
  7. bonpear

    bonpear Sophomore

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    You don’t have to vote them out, the others can just leave en masse desolving the original conference. I.e. you have talks after which 12 teams leave the SEC and nine or ten leave the ACC and then viola! All hail the new SEACC. Then you’re not forcing out an original member, you’re leaving to form a new conference.
     
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  8. bonpear

    bonpear Sophomore

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    And Frankly, if I was the Big Ten Commish I would be working long and hard not to bring Notre Dame in (because frankly they would never choose the SEC because of academics and the PAC may not allow ND in due to PC issues, so Notre Dame won’t have a choice but to join the Big Ten if the ACC dissolves), but to close a deal with the southernmost ACC members plus Pitt to expand their territory and keep the SEC from any type of natural expansion. Bring in at least Pitt, UVA, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech, Clemson and FSU.

    Then where could the SEC expand? Obviously they can pick up NC State and Virginia Tech to get access in NC and VA. But after that, the SEC would have to take some other Big 12 scraps like Texas Tech, or TCU; or else make a run at the Arizona schools to bring in another large state.
     
  9. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    Never heard any conversation of Miami to the Big-12. There was at one point a conversation of Notre Dame, and maybe FSU to be a second piece to that, going to the Big-12, but Notre Dame shut that down immediately, and Texas said no expansion at all unless Notre Dame was part of the deal. But never once heard anything about Miami. No idea where you hear that.

    But I was hearing major rumblings about UVA and GT approaching the Big-10 and the ACC GOR being drawn up and every member being forced to sign immediately to keep it from happening.
     
  10. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    Is that pretty much not exactly what I said in my post?

    But I can GUARANTEE you that no SEC team is ever going to leave the SEC to form a new conference with any schools from the ACC. No school from the SEC is voluntarily going to leave the SEC, period. Other than Notre Dame and maybe UNC, there really aren't any ACC schools that would be particularly attractive to SEC teams.
     
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  11. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    I really don't get you. Your arguments make no sense. The SEC doesn't need to expand. They are at 16 now. The Big-10 doesn't really need to expand either, unless they feel they need to get to 16.

    Maybe you're not aware of this but Notre Dame isn't actually in the ACC, at least not for football. They did a 1 year deal because of Covid, but they're independent and plan to stay independent. But if they ever decide to join a conference, it will likely be the Big-10.
     
  12. Gatordad699

    Gatordad699 Sophomore

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    Find it interesting that some people want to kick the last two NCAA Baseball title winners out of the SEC. One of those, Vandy, is an AAU member with twice as many baseball titles as UF. Before adding Mizzo, Texas, and A&M the SEC only had two AAU Universities. Doubt seriously they would kick one out.
     
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  13. filamg8torfan

    filamg8torfan GC Hall of Fame

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    Hellll [​IMG]!
     
  14. thale410

    thale410 GC Hall of Fame

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    No one is getting the boot, but baseball titles will have zero impact on anything moving forward.

    Vandy has zero interest in competing at a consistent level, so it's blind squirrel and nut when they do show up.
     
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  15. BGator

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    UNC would knock the SEC's popularity right out of the park. And yes, UVa is right there w them. i know the SEC brass knows this, and right now would be a great time to strike. Any and all other conferences may as well just fold up shop if we could pull that off...
     
  16. bonpear

    bonpear Sophomore

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    Report: Miami Has Informally Contacted the Big 12
     
  17. maxgator

    maxgator GC Hall of Fame

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    You really think that the SEC would change it's name? That's as dumb as thinking the SEC is going to get rid of founding members.
     
  18. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    First of all, there's a HUGE difference between a school having informal "inquiries" to a conference and at least serious "rumors" of there actually being reciprocated interest and rumblings of actual deals being worked out. WVU pitched to the SEC around the same time, but that doesn't mean the SEC was actually considering them. FSU made a pitch to the Big-10 as well. Plus this story you linked was almost a full year before the GOR.

    Second, there was some validity to your story, but it was only that the Big-12 wanted Notre Dame and FSU. FSU wanted out of the ACC pretty badly. They pitched themselves hard to the SEC, Big-10 and Big-12. FSU knew the ACC was fragile. That Notre Dame/FSU to the Big-12 deal was actually on the table. It died because Notre Dame backed out. FSU still wanted in and pitched Clemson to replace Notre Dame and the Big-12 listened. But Texas vetoed it because they wouldn't accept any expansion unless Notre Dame was part of it. If FSU and Clemson had been invited, the ACC would have been in deep trouble.

    The ACC grant of rights didn't come about until almost a year later. The ACC thought it was safe but then the Big-10 started talking with UVA and UNC in late 2012. It had been thought that the original 8 ACC members were all solid and totally committed to the ACC. Around late February 2013, there were rumors that UNC had an offer on the table, though it sounded like they weren't overly interested in leaving the ACC. Then focus turned to UVA and GT. UVA showed a lot of reciprocated interest. There were rumors of an "imminent" announcement of UVA and GT to The Big-10 within a week of the ACC announcing the GOR.

    That's not to say that the talks with the Big-12 by FSU and Clemson the previous year weren't a factor, but the GOR was quickly shoved down all the ACC member's throats to keep UVA and possibly GT from leaving.
     
  19. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm not sure I'd put UVA in the same category as UNC, but they could be a dark horse candidate. I think UVA is probably a more logical fit for the Big-10.
     
  20. ETGator1

    ETGator1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Actually, Notre Dame is a member in the ACC for all sports except football and ice hockey, plays full schedules. I don't think ND will surrender their football independence until/unless NBC pulls the plug on their television contract. Ice hockey isn't a sport played in the south so that will continue to be played elsewhere too.

    Florida has a team that participates in the Big East along with Vanderbilt in women's lacrosse. That doesn't mean anything except lacrosse isn't played in most of the SEC.

    I think the ACC will be Notre Dame's landing spot in college football if they ever choose to join a conference. All of the relationships are in place to make a seemless transition from independence to conference membership. Again, Notre Dame will not unilaterally give up its independence in football.