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Will FSU and Clemson join the SEC?

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by Tolbert1906, Jul 26, 2021.

  1. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    Assuming this is your math, I think you're off by about $10 million. Are you by chance a Nole grad? :)

    On another note, look at the 2018 value. UF is over double FSU. That said, FSU is definitely one of the ACC schools that has value for one of the super conferences. I have little doubt they won't get left behind in all this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
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  2. TrueGator

    TrueGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I think so, too, but more money divided by more members usually averages out to the same money. I get it that it's UT and OU with the big following, though.
     
  3. GatorMatt06

    GatorMatt06 GC Hall of Fame

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    I had to read that post 4 times like I was missing something lol. Yeah should be $113.6m for FSU.
     
  4. bonpear

    bonpear Sophomore

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    Yes, I did this right before going to bed. I actually tried to correct it but it says my message is “spam like” and can’t be saved as an edit.

    Oh well, in real life there probably is an extra $10 million by being in the SEC in boosted ticket sales, extra merchandise sales and increased tv replay rights. I wasn’t going to mention it, but since I can’t fix the above I’ll now pretend it was intentional. Because it’s probably either accurate or even on the low side.
     
  5. bonpear

    bonpear Sophomore

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    Also, the “value” amount in that article is meaningless because they’re applying for profit definitions of value. If company A brings in X dollars and spends Y and has 10 million more leftover than Company B then Company A has more value. Instead they should be valued like nonprofits ie how much of revenues goes to the ultimate goal ie football.

    In other words what the WSJ is saying is that UF is more “valuable” than FSU because it spends less of its overall revenues on football. But to other members of the SEC the exact opposite is true, you want your other members spending money on football and not on other sports, buildings, academics etc…

    That’s why I was referencing only revenues. That’s the real gauge of value not truthfully where it’s spent and IF there’s any value to where that money is being spent then it’s an inverse of how they decided it.
     
  6. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    Not sure I agree with your logic on that. Profits are pretty clearly more important than revenue in my book, especially for a company. That's part of the reason FSU is in such a financial bind at this point.
     
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  7. BGator

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    I think the SEC is in positition to dictate what it wants and go get it.

    I would certainly think that if '18' is the end game, the SEC will seek UNC and UVa. These two, despite not being football bluebloods, would be slam dunk, grandslam additions. Yes, i know UNC 'is' the ACC and is joined at the hip w Duke, etc., but at the end of the day, joining the SEC would vastly improve both theirs and the SECs status.... i would love to have these 2 in. FSU is and should be irrelevant to the SECs future expansion if there ever is any...
     
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  8. bonpear

    bonpear Sophomore

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    Profits are important to shareholders in a for profit companies because that’s the main way you glean value. But for nonprofits and in this case football teams there’s no profit to “rake” to the shareholders, it’s simply money that must be spent somewhere whether on the football team or not. And money not spent on the football team to improve it is useless to a football conference. A team can always simply spend less on football…in which case its product and value would drop.
     
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  9. bonpear

    bonpear Sophomore

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    Look at the link I provided, UVA is not very valuable at all. It may be a state school, but it’s a very small state school with an enrollment barely bigger than Duke or Miami. Virginia runs William and Mary and UVA as essentially high end academic private schools as options for its taxpayers, unlike Florida, Texas and Georgia which are gargantuan behemoths in the Big Ten style like Michigan and Ohio State. Virginia Tech is the closest that the state of Virginia has to a large SEC/Big Ten type of school. UVA is too hard to get into and too Wine and Cheese for the average Virginia redneck to get behind as a peanut eating fan. So UVA’s power in state is very limited compared to Georgia and Florida.

    That’s true of UNC to a lesser extent. They’re not quite as Ivy Leaguesque as UVA but they are half the size of places like Florida and Georgia and there’s probably more fans of NC State, Duke, Wake and East Carolina than UNC.
     
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  10. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

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    This is an odd argument to make since I don't know of a conference that doesn't have more sports than football.

    Even without looking up the details, I just don't believe that your argument that FSU would top out in Gross Revenue above UF if they traded their ACC deal for the SEC deal. The SEC distributes its revenue equally to its members and there are really only 4 primary revenue sources for a College athletics program:
    1. Season and other tickets Sales - Bigger Stadiums, more season ticket holders = Big advantage UF
    2. Media Rights - A wash if FSU joined the SEC
    3. Booster donations and Endowments - Big advantage UF
    4. Licensing - Even if FSU leads in this category (in 2018 maybe, but I doubt now), I don't think there would be nearly enough revenue to overcome the big gaps in #'s 1 and 3.
     
  11. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    You are correct that there are no shareholders and there's not somebody at the top taking home the profits, and the UFAA is a not-for-profit (not non-profit as you stated), but college football is most definitely a profit center.

    Somebody probably has a breakdown, but my understanding is that the UFAA revenue is used to support non revenue sports and build new facilities for all sports. And then at least some of the "profit" goes to the school's general fund which can fund academic scholarships and infrastructure. It's part of how UF has elevated itself as an academic institution over the last few decades.

    Make no mistake, profits absolutely matter in college sports.
     
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  12. bonpear

    bonpear Sophomore

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    Yes but excess profits going to academics doesn’t help football or the other SEC teams/the tv contract. Otherwise Vanderbilt would matter for something.

    Those excess profits are meaningful to the individual school but NOT to the league. If I’m a league commissioner I’m not taking in a bunch of Vanderbilt, Wakes and Dukes who pay into football only enough to be barely tolerable. I want teams that are actually spending their revenues on football.
     
  13. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

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    Tut-tut...we like to call them revenues in excess of expenses :p.
     
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  14. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

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    The only concern the league should have about where an individual school uses its own proceeds is if it permanently lowers the market "value" of the school and the conference as a whole. The SEC doesn't want the Wakes, Dukes, (and would probably love to ditch Vandy) because they won't enhance the total market value of the Media rights as much as other schools, like Texas, Oklahoma, and (whether we Gators like it or not) FSU. Some schools bring value in other sports than Football. I guarantee that the SEC would trade Vandy for Duke just for the B'ball, but they would take UNC over either because of it being a more well-rounded athletic program in a fast growing State.
     
  15. No, the SEC would not trade Vandy for Duke.

    Nashville.

    There appear to be some very narrow applications / comprehensions of what's relevant, etc. For instance: UF is far, far more valuable than FSU -- well beyond the published numbers.

    Likewise, anyone capable of saying UNC isn't -- by far -- the dominant and most popular program in North Carolina . . . doesn't understand the state of North Carolina IMHO.

    I suspect the same, to a lesser extent, can be said of UVa.
     
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  16. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    Wow! You have lost me. I don't even know what you're trying to argue here. But based on your arguments, I'm glad you're not involved in deciding the future of the SEC.
     
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  17. atlantagator86

    atlantagator86 GC Hall of Fame

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    Yep. If there was one school I'd want the SEC to poach from the ACC, it would be UNC. UNC as the only NC program in the SEC would explode the way Texas A&M has and be a logical extension of the SEC footprint.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
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  18. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Unspent future expenses. :cool:
     
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  19. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

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    Of course they would, just count the Creamsicle and White in the Stands vs. the Black and Gold next time they meet in Nashville. Nashville is a Vandy town like Atlanta is a Tech town.
    Agreed.

    I think UVa is a little blue blood for the SEC...even if the SEC wanted them I don't think they would join. I think they have much more affinity for the B1G.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
  20. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Well, unfortunately, FSU is probably more valuable than UF, since UF's football program is run competently by a private organization comprised of loyal Gator FB lovers yielding honest annual profits, while FSU FB is run incompetently, generating year over year deficits which is rewarded by government with bail-out tax dollars for new "classrooms", conveniently imbedded in the FB stadium, and supporting seats.... :cool:

    I mean....how can a group of tax payers compete with the very tax base it sustains???
     
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