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Why is UF shooting up in the academic rankings in pretty much every department???

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by urg8rbait, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Wth???

    UF is plenty competitive. It is the Univerity of FLORIDA. it exists to serve FLORIDA.

    As it is, seats for FLORIDIANS are woefully in short supply, and in incredibly high demand.

    City's suggestion, apparently with your support, would have us screw more Floridians out of seats, in order to assuage y'alls globalist egos.

    ...Hell with that.

    And Trump has squat to do with anything here.

    Edit--fyi, i fixed the spelling of 'foreigners', as it was a legit typo (...and which my spell check failed to alert me of).
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  2. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    ^^^^NB: UF is a public school.

    The 'public' here, would be the State of FLORIDA. Thats who pays for it, its people are whom it is intended to serve.

    Let some high fullutn private school impress their globalist peers with their wordly worldliness, since they exist to serve the ppl. Who pay for them.
     
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  3. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    When my son was a senior in high school, UF recruited him fairly heavily. At a function here in Jax and also with a weekend at UF, the pitch was the same: Use Bright Futures at UF rather than going into debt at Duke or someplace like that. If you're going to owe $100,000, make sure it's because you have a law degree from Harvard or a medical degree from Johns Hopkins and you can pay it back.
    You can't pay it back with a BA in English.

    They kept hammering that point. Of course, that's when Bright Futures paid a lot more than it does now.
     
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  4. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    According to UF's own numbers. There were barely 100 international undergrads admitted in each undergrad class (most of the international population are in the graduate programs, and indeed most of these programs couldn't even survive without strong international presence). You make it out like international students make any difference whatsoever in UF admissions. They don't. If anything, they are woefully underrepresented at the undergraduate level. Not saying UF needs to make any effort to recruit even more international students, but it wouldn't bother me if they did.

    University of Florida International Center

    UF should admit the best from around the world regardless of where they are from. Best and the brightest. THAT is now you serve the state. It's basically the only way to win at research - which is an important component of these "rankings" - for what they are worth.

    I do agree UF as a state institution is there to serve the needs of Florida, but it can only accomplish that if it is going after the best and brightest. That doesn't mean going after international students for the sake of taking international students, it means going after and attracting the best regardless of where they are - anywhere in the world. I'm sure just based on geography and the value of "in-state tuition", no matter what UF does the vast majority of it's student population (at least as far as undergrads) will be in-state students. And that's as it should be. But that doesn't mean UF shouldn't also have it's doors wide open to top talent from outside the state, erecting walls and barriers to avoid competition is loser talk.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  5. busigator96

    busigator96 Hooked since summer 1997!

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    Raising money to hire faculty. Student faculty ratio goes down. Game
     
  6. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

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    Bright futures doesn’t have the full scholarship anymore?
     
  7. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    I think the full 100 percent for the top group and 75 percent for the next group has been restored. That's what it was when our first two went to college. By the time our third went, what had been 75 percent was barely 50.
     
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  8. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    And you don't see how you are making a socialist argument? You are arguing that UF is a socialist institution that shouldn't act like a capitalist. That is fine, but recognize that you are taking up the cause of socialism (the institution exists for the betterment of "the people" not for profit-maximization and that should be enforced by the government) here.
     
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  9. citygator

    citygator Premium Member

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    Meh. There are plenty of options for Florida HS grads plus the school is huge. You just need to be elite to get into Florida. Try living in Virginia or North Carolina. Flagship schools there are T O U G H to get into. US owns the world market in University Education and could make a boatload of money and influence in the world by opening it up further.

    Love that you are not for meritocracy nor free markets when it hits home.
     
  10. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    I didnt 'make it out like int'l students make a difference'--i reacted to the suggestion that we take measures such that they would, bc its a very tight zero sum game that would result in fewer openings to Florida residents.

    Re. Undergrad--there are plenty of foriegn born Florida residents who meet the requirements and get in. UF is very diverse against other public universities. Thats judt fine--they're FL residents--the intended benys of UF.

    Re. Grad/post grad-- as you pointed out, grad schools need no assistance in the foriegn students department. The US has long been an international magnate for grad students, UF not being an exception (probably even better intl repn than most, i would guess).

    TBL, IMHO, the very last thing we need to do, is make Florida's best school, any less accessible to FL residents than it already is.

    We're not Harvard nor Stanford... we're actually better (imo) for the state than those, because we are situated in Florida, serve Florida, and are comprised mostly of Florida residents--ie--ppl. With a vested interest in Florida; skin in the game.

    Ivy league snooty private school types will never have the dedication and love for Florida that UF students have, for the most part--because of its flag bearing nature, mission and charter.

    Eg--Harvard to MA, Yale to Ct, Duke to NC, Tulane to LA...do you think their students are more committed to their respective host states, than Gators to Florida? I don't.

    Hence I would not want to see UF become like those schools.

    UF is ours. Its Florida's.

    Let her serve Florida first and foremost--according to her mission and charter.
     
  11. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Nah, i dont believe that's accurate at all.

    Socialism is defined as a factor of govmt control over means of production vis s vis the private sector. Capitalism is essentially synonymous with private property, but with emphasis on use thereof for profitable ventures.

    Public funding for education is really not antithetical to capitalism, beyond the impact of taxation for funding it, on private property rights.

    But taxes are an accepted and understood aspect of life and governance for capitalism. Capitalism is not anarchy--in fact, governance and rule of law are foundational to capitalism, bc that is the mechanism by which private property rights are protected against...the toughest thugs on the street (if you will).
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  12. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

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    I was 100% plus book stipend when I attended. I usually had some change left over from the stipend if played it right.
     
  13. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    that's what my son had. Full tuition plus, I think, $500 a semester for books or whatever. Daughters had the next level which started out at 75 percent tuition. But then they changed it to a certain amount per credit hour, which came in much less than 75.
    I think I read it's been changed back to the original plan.
     
  14. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Pretty much like having the government tell somebody they have to serve one group of customers (although many in academia recoil in horror about the implications of that framing) and not another?

    Profit- or utility-maximization. Much like offering service to whoever the most profitable customers are.

    No, although having the government restrict who can go there is antithetical to capitalism, which, again, is fine in certain circumstances.

    Yes, in a purely capitalistic society, you have government to solve disputes. However, saying that an institution can't serve a group of customers is not resolving disputes. It is, at its core, socialist.
     
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  15. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    <<<<<<ssstttrrreeetttcchhhh>>>>>*

    NB: University of FLORIDA. FLORIDA = a state. Not a country.

    NB2: University =/= 'means of production'

    NB3: using tax dollars to serve those beyond the tax base (when the charter of an org. indicates that it is established to serve the supportong tax base) is also not particularly 'capitalistic'.

    NB4: no one's suggesting any restriction against any privately owned and operated entity from engaging in the service proposed here. We just dont need to fund it with tax dollars (thereby not funding same for similar numbers of intended beneficiaries i.e. residents of the tax base).

    Nothing 'capitslistic' about doing so; nothing anti-capitslistic, about resisting the notion.
     
  16. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    So no state governments, laws, or regulations can be socialist?

    Of course it is.

    If the argument is that public university charters often have socialistic elements, I'd agree to that.

    Serving the state assumes that the main service being provided to the state is a place for the states residents to go. Not sure that is true. The most purely capitalist idea would be to let them serve more overseas students, likely increasing the overall size of the university with no negative effects on performance. University takes in more money and supply and demand adjusts.
     
  17. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    You continue to seek to pound square pegs through round holes, in order to advance your narrative.

    TBL: As I wrote above, Capitalism is essentially an extension of private property rights. That is not mutually exclusive to government, government having right to own property, to engage in pursuits...nothing about capitalism would prohibit any of this.

    Conversely, government getting involved in certain activities beyond the bare minimum, is not 'socialist' by definition--because socialism, by definition, is a function of government control of the means of production, vs. the private sector.

    IOW, if there is no meaningful encroachment into private sector property rights or activity...then government activity does not amount to 'socialism'.

    TBL in re. the suggestion that triggered this whole tangent (i.e.--aggressively seek to bolster foreign students' attendance), it's not the worse thing in the world to do, just not particularly advisable. IMO, a step in exactly the wrong direction, since it would likely result in fewer seats for Florida residents, when more seats are in order.

    (And again...all of this has *@$%@ all to do with socialism or capitalism).
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  18. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    Was Bright Futures funded by the lottery?