Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

Why are we in debt?

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Bazza, May 23, 2020.

  1. docspor

    docspor GC Hall of Fame

    1,869
    694
    533
    Nov 30, 2010
    same as it is for you & me. You meet your debt obligation & the cost of borrowing is very low; otherwise it costs a lot
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

    1,607
    73
    268
    Aug 23, 2008
    For the government there is no benefit to paying the debt down. For the average American, the benefit would be a better standard of living once America was debt free. At this point getting there would be very painful.

    Somehow we have been convinced that inflation is a good thing. It's not. It's good for the government and terrible for the average American.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

    1,607
    73
    268
    Aug 23, 2008
    Unfortunately this is what it has come to.
     
  4. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

    1,322
    270
    408
    Apr 24, 2007
    See the post above yours. In the short term, there is no benefit. In the long term, you;
    1. Pay it off
    2. Live a miserable existence when interest rates go up. The government will just print money. See Venezuela for examples.
    3. Collapse
     
  5. FrankGator627

    FrankGator627 VIP Member Premium Member

    26,319
    2,176
    1,628
    Apr 3, 2007
    Gator Nation
    Who is going to call the debt to paid off though? Will there be a big foreclosure sign placed over America?

    There’s a lot of government wasted spending that could be significantly cut back. I doubt anyone will ever get everyone on board to do it though.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. intimigator1

    intimigator1 GC Hall of Fame

    4,832
    349
    363
    Apr 8, 2007
    Male' Maldives
    Just to clarify, the Democrats do not want to give out free stuff. We all pay taxes and I, as a veteran, choose to have my taxes sent to giving people a better life. The only reason some are offended by the "free stuff" thing is because they were taught that it's a no no. In my mind there is never a limit to allowing people to live their lives in the best possible fashion at all and since none of us really knows where "our" money goes then why not to ourselves? Sending more money to the military has always been a path to more waste and opportunity for defense contractors to enrich themselves so why not enrich ourselves with our money? Just makes better sense.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

    6,562
    546
    698
    Apr 8, 2007
    You are right, I shouldn't have used the term "free stuff". That was over simplifying the "two santas" theory. Democrats want programs to help the poor and generally want higher taxes to pay for it, so democrats know it's not free. The "two Santas" theory was actually invented by a conservative adviser who later pitched the idea to Reagan ... the idea was the that if Republicans cut taxes so that no one was paying for the democrat's programs, the democrats would be forced to raise taxes or cut programs, and be seen as the "anti-santa" to half the country. Of Course, that's not how it played out. Reagan tripled the debt, there were no spending cuts, and the rest is history. We sent the debt through the roof and no one cared, we became addicted to the idea that we can have both the spending and the tax cuts. And 40 years later, it's now the republicans that are the bigger spenders and still cutting taxes ... it's nuts.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. intimigator1

    intimigator1 GC Hall of Fame

    4,832
    349
    363
    Apr 8, 2007
    Male' Maldives
    Your facts are very clear but what is funny will be that someone will feel the need to debate what you wrote. These aren't political facts...they are taken from what is the truth and can be attained from simple research from government data but someone is just itching to dispute the information. Having lived 59 good and solid years I attest that there are certain things "conservatives" claim every election. 1. the military is always in terrible shape and only they have the ability to make it the greatest again and there is never fraud in defense spending nor political favors. 2. All conservatives just love God so much and the rest are just Satan loving anti-American commies (I digress back to the 60's and early 70's rhetoric). 3. Money is number 1! Every conservative candidate proclaims they will get the economy rolling with tax cuts and eliminating the terrible regulations that keep people up all night long in terror. 4. They proclaim that they are the patriots of America and everyone else just doesn't measure up. So they play "Proud to be an American" as if they hold copyright to the lyrics and get on with the business of spending incredible amounts of money that their great fiscal plans cannot create fast enough.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. defensewinschampionships

    defensewinschampionships GC Hall of Fame

    1,863
    967
    353
    Sep 16, 2018
    the billions it takes to service the debt that could be used for other expenditures?
     
  10. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

    1,322
    270
    408
    Apr 24, 2007
    We are long past the point of thinking that we will be able to retire the debt.
    You are missing my point. The day of reckoning will not come when someone calls the debt. It will be when investors start to realize that our debt will be repaid in inflated dollars. Then they won’t buy them until the interest rate goes up enough to compensate for the implied loss of face value.
    We won’t be able to afford that amount of interest and everything g collapses. Interest rates up. Inflation way up. Fixed pensions and annuities will be basically worthless after a year or so because that amount of income won’t even buy your groceries.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

    1,322
    270
    408
    Apr 24, 2007
    Your post specifically and your ideology in general would have much more credibility if you addressed both sides weaknesses. But I suppose a one sided opinion makes you feel better
     
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  12. Emmitto

    Emmitto GC Hall of Fame

    6,309
    641
    273
    Apr 3, 2007
    On the trillions spent on other things? What about the services from those trillions?

    Again, I’m not advocating for debt, even for the most powerful economy. But “debts don’t matter” has a point in coldly ultra-rational economic thought.

    If a debt cannot be called in, what is the downside?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. defensewinschampionships

    defensewinschampionships GC Hall of Fame

    1,863
    967
    353
    Sep 16, 2018
    Well for those of us who read the Bible we learned that “The borrower is slave to the lender.”
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  14. Emmitto

    Emmitto GC Hall of Fame

    6,309
    641
    273
    Apr 3, 2007
    So it’s a moral issue? I have no problem with that either. I personally fight debt with all my #teacherdough might. But my creditors do indeed have the ability to call me out. If they couldn’t, why would I forgo the benefits of all that credit? I’m only a slave if I can be captured.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Emmitto

    Emmitto GC Hall of Fame

    6,309
    641
    273
    Apr 3, 2007
    Me, yes. USG, no.

    Venezuela didn’t collapse because of debt. It was much more complex. Debt was a nail, but like your deck (use screws, FTR), one loose nail isn’t the cause of the collapse.

    Systemic corruption does indeed include debt. But the debt alone, meh.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. tarponbro

    tarponbro All American

    442
    84
    273
    Feb 10, 2016
    OK, here gores my "crazy" theory. First, most of our debt isn't held by China (they're #2 to Japan, btw) but it's held by institutions such as Social Security, different pension plans, etc., even the Federal Reserve itself. Second, what's the general TBill interest rate now, between one and two percent, maybe even less? If our govt borrows money now is about as good a time as any. Second, who is going to call our debt, the Federal Reserve? I don't think so. What will they will gain by doing this? In my opinion, a bigger worry for the USA is if the dollar is replaced as the world's standard currency. That would hurt us greatly but the result of our economic disaster caused by this would also devastate almost every other economy in the world, except perhaps those countries and institutions that would already use that new world's standard currency. If, let's say, the euro became the world's standard currency, the countries that use the euro might gat a stronger currency, but the lack of money spent by the USA and in the USA by them would probably hurt their economies too. Most, if not all of the countries that manufacture a lot of goods that are imported to the USA would would be greatly affected too. It just doesn't seem to me the rest of the world would want to cause and economic disaster by bringing the USA down.
     
  17. intimigator1

    intimigator1 GC Hall of Fame

    4,832
    349
    363
    Apr 8, 2007
    Male' Maldives
    My focus is on exactly what I posted and never considered playing fair in generalizing or comparing. Does it make me "feel" better? I didn't know that stating an observation was meant for feeling good but okay then, I feel better.

    My ideology is one of if I like it then I like it. If I don't like it then I don't. Conservatives have been an inflexible oxymoron of society when one realizes that nothing ever changes with them but they keep recycling the words as if somehow the "next" time it will work. Note to record, it never has and it never will. Be thankful that there is always the military to bail you out when times are tough.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

    1,607
    73
    268
    Aug 23, 2008
    I imagine that there will be a huge world war before this scenario takes place.

    The US has this big military for something right?
     
  19. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

    1,322
    270
    408
    Apr 24, 2007
    I was referring to the collapse of the value of their currency. My apologies if I didn’t make that clear.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Emmitto

    Emmitto GC Hall of Fame

    6,309
    641
    273
    Apr 3, 2007
    Agreed, currency collapse is devastating and then debt is indeed a killer. But that seems beyond unlikely for the dollar.