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Why are we in debt?

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Bazza, May 23, 2020.

  1. Bazza

    Bazza GC Hall of Fame

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    If you stop and think about it....as a country...we're a bunch of idiots putting up with this.

    I'm no economics expert but letting this happen has to be one of the dumbest things a country could do.

    Meanwhile...we are complaining the SEC Network isn't showing enough Gator sports events....and when they do.....it's ones we lost.

    Other discussions include (look up and down the thread topics here).

    Talk about not seeing the big picture......:rolleyes:
     
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  2. WestCoastGator

    WestCoastGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Is this satire? If not, see republican tax “reform” of 2004 and 2017.
     
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  3. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    Vote all the same type of people in and you get the same result.

    Both parties spend money on their priorities. Neither side believes in a smaller govt.

    Only thing that will change is to vote a 3rd party into local, state and federal positions.

    Vermin Supreme 2020!!!!!!
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Emmitto

    Emmitto GC Hall of Fame

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    Debts are only a concern if they can be collected. For an everyday person, a critical concern. For the US government, who has that leverage?

    I’m not arguing for debt. But it’s largely a talking point that clearly neither party is actually concerned about. D’s propose trillion dollar programs with no shame, R’s are outraged and then spend more.
     
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  5. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    Debt is a powerful tool, no doubt. When used correctly, it can be a rocket launcher. Conversely, when used inappropriately, it can be quite the crusher. Just ask 2008 for example.
     
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  6. AndyGator

    AndyGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Wars and economic crashes. But not just debt. 25T :confused:
     
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  7. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    It pretty much started with Reagan convincing the boomers they could keep all the free stuff the democrats were giving out, have a the world's best military, and not have to pay for it. It's call the "two Santas" theory. Democrats want to give out free stuff and Republicans want to make sure no one pays for it.
     
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  8. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    Spending money gets you reelected. Lots of people say they are for balancing the budget, but then when questioned about what programs that impact them personally they are willing to give up then they aren't quite so enthusiastic anymore. Also probably the government realized that debt markets aren't that sensitive to our debt levels because everyone is dependent on the USD for international trade, so they can run up the debt all they want. If debt holders like China wanted to unload our debt, they would take a bath as markets crashed. Probably the biggest medium term impact of running up the debt is the percentage of the federal budget consumed by interest. As deficit spending continues to grow, the interest can crowd out other discretionary spending. Finally remember that we print our own money and our debt is denominated in USD, so it's impossible to go bankrupt. We could pay off the debt tomorrow by having the federal reserve print $25T of dollars. But there would of course be consequences to that.
     
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  9. Bazza

    Bazza GC Hall of Fame

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    LOL.....just my opinion but the minute someone starts pointing fingers to one party or the other....that demonstrates largely what we are up against.

    Once you go down that road......you're are only sucking the oxygen out of the room....and ultimately everyone suffocates.

    If anyone has the ability to see the big picture (some have already demonstrated that in the thread) - thank you. We need more like you.....
     
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  10. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    To think either party is going to significantly reduce our debt is crazy af.
     
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  11. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    My limited 3 decade experience in the lending industry clearly demonstrated that the $$$ is in the fee income generated by closing loans. As big as fast and as many as you possibly can. The default risk can easily be passed down the line when the loans are sold to the next sucker ERRR investor. Collect cash at closing and if the loan craps out no biggie you're clean. Where is the disincentive to lie cheat and steal? I was at a lunch one time with a district manager and her superiors where she arrogantly but casually said and I quote "the mortgage broker license is a license to steal". The suits laughed their butts off, but I knew exactly what she meant. I've personally audited the fraudulent files, we had a library full of them in the office. And I'm just one guy in Central Florida. I seriously doubt I'm I'm the only one. Actually, my friends around the country went through the same things. Coincidence? I think not.

    But in the world of MAGA, it's all good long as I got's mine. Who cares about anyone else?
     
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  12. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    I seem to recall one party shutting down the government, interrupting a financial recovery, all in the name of a fake fiscal conservatism.

    When this party gains power, they always cut taxes regardless of the fiscal impacts (primary benefit for their billionaire donors), and somehow manage to spend like drunken sailors while somehow actually undermining the functioning of govt (so all this big spending must go straight to their pals or something...)

    So yeah, it is sort of “on” one party. The last two dem presidents inherited a mess and turned the budget deficits in the right direction (Clinton even managed a surplus). Obama may have gotten closer to budget Neutral by around 2015 without the Grover Norquest types standing in the way.

    Trump becomes President, GOP has both chambers of Congress. What do they do? Their big legislative agenda DOUBLES THE BUDGET DEFICIT. This was before the bungling of the pandemic. Now he might have 10x multiple or more vs. the annual deficit inherited from Obama. Brilliant.
     
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  13. docspor

    docspor GC Hall of Fame

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    tax revenue as a % of GDP was almost exactly the same as the 40 years prior. Reagan ushered in 11 tax increases, some massive. the notion that Reagan was small gov is utter nonsense.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    We as a nation have a spending problem...
     
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  15. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    You dont get re-elected by saving money.
     
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  16. docspor

    docspor GC Hall of Fame

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    It is pretty simple. IMO, we are in a political equilibrium that produces debt. We've got massive pressure to spend & massive pressure to keep taxes low. It's very hard to significantly reduce spending or significantly raise taxes.
     
  17. Emmitto

    Emmitto GC Hall of Fame

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    R's def worse, and the grandstanding makes it that much more deplorable. But TBF Slick Willy caught lightning in a bottle, not so sure it was philosophy instead of serendipity. Obama's fix is def underrated, and it was also def intentionally undermined. But he really had no choice, it was truly a meltdown. Again, perhaps the philosophy was solid, or perhaps circumstances dictated certain outcomes.

    Carville had to actually coin It's The Economy Stupid to remind D's that that's what voters look to. R's know this fully and manipulate it at every turn.

    Conservatives think about how much things cost to do. Liberals think about how much not doing things cost. Both are noble concepts and should be the centerpiece of the national debate. Instead it's D squawk vs. R squeal.
     
  18. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

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    Once you realize the government has no intention of paying the debt back then it makes a lot more sense.
     
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  19. gator10010

    gator10010 GC Hall of Fame

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    This is what needs to happen if we are serious about paying the debt. This also would require both parties working together...... which is why we will just keep borrowing until the whole thing collapses on us.
     
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  20. Emmitto

    Emmitto GC Hall of Fame

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    What is the benefit of paying the debt?

    For you or me, it is obvious.

    For the US government though, what is it?

    I'm not being snarky or sneaky.