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why are so many fully vacinated testing positive?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by buckeyegator, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. persuader

    persuader GC Legend

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    Continuing to deny the science will only heighten the risks. Prayers to those who are too stubborn, or too short-sighted, to recognize.
    There will never be a verifiable study that will indicate: (1) there is a greater risk of infection among the vaccinated population. (2) there is a greater risk of a more severe or lethal infection among those that are vaccinated.
    The majority of the current UK infections are among those that are unvaxed or have received only a single dose.
     
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  2. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    The US is saying that 3% of hospitalizations are for vaccinated people right now. 0.5% of the deaths. If you are going to call it a lie, you should probably know the numbers.

    Covid-19 hospitalizations and deaths are increasing, and the vast majority were not vaccinated - CNN

    It should be noted important differences between the US and UK are:

    1. The mixture of vaccines in the UK is less effective, especially against the Delta variant.
    2. The delta variant is more pervasive in the UK as it has been spreading there longer.
    3. The percentage of the population in the UK fully vaccinated is much higher than in the US. That means a higher proportion of the infected are going to be vaccinated. It is simple math.
    4. Hospitalization thresholds may differ between the US and UK. In fact, the evidence would support that, as the UK has a lower rate of death per hospitalized case than the US (suggesting that you have to get sicker to be hospitalized in the US). The other possibility would just be that our hospitals are of worse quality, but I don't tend to buy that.

    However, it also should be noted that you have no data to back up your claim that the US authorities made up their data.
     
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  3. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    The 1% rate you are quoting is deaths from COVID from the unvaccinated. Death is different that hospitalization, which one can recover from. Death is little more permanent. Hospitalization rate from breakthrough cases in the US is harder to find, but the CDC does record 5,492 breakthrough hospitalizations as of 7/12. But to find a denominator, we'd have to know if this count started from the first vaccination, and total US hospitalization rate.

    Even if we could figure out percentages, the number would be skewed, because the lower the amount of vaccination rate, the lower the total breakthrough hospitalization cases. That's because say only 10% of population vaccinated, then there are 9 unvaxxed people for every 1 vaxxed person that the virus can potentially infect.

    The UK numbers are actually to be expected. There are significantly more in the UK who are vaccinated, and yet, there are still more unvaccinated in hospitals versus those with both jabs. Would be interesting to see if the 1% death rate from the vaxxed holds in the UK as well. Hard to find the totals, but this article says vaccinations in the UK has lowered death to a 20th of the total had there been no vaccine at all.
     
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  4. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    There is no reason they wouldn't get unless they felt that covid was not a threat to them.

    Why wouldn't they encourage their followers to get it?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  5. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    more important reason, fundraising
     
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  6. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...tions-deaths-occurring-among-the-unvaccinated

    You keep thinking the CDC is telling the truth. I'll go with the real world data from the UK and Israel. But hey, keep making up crap trying to explain away the differences.

    For the claim that that I don't have proof the US is making up the claim, why don't they post the hospital data online. They have it. Can't be hard to do. I know you know this. That's what makes it fun. You know the CDC is lying. And i love watching you do the tap dancing around that fact.
     
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  7. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    So now the UK numbers were expected. LOL. Too funny. I don't recall you or anyone saying that a month ago. Must've overlooked it...

    This is too much fun for me. Just come out and say the vaccines don't work that well. They work at some level, but for sure not the level the drug companies trotted out there. That's what happens when you don't do a full trial. Oh, and that "vaccines work better than natural immunity" argument is just about dead in the water. Keep thinking that way, because I know you won't ever admit you were wrong, just like with the vaccinating of children. Keep up the fight!
     
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  8. WC53

    WC53 GC Hall of Fame

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    Niece tested for Delta today. Low fever and cough so far. Health care worker. Had a patient last week who said he was vax, he is hospitalized this week, wasn’t vaccinated. #Floriduh
     
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  9. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    According to this site, UK is at 54% fully vaccinated, many with AZ, which is less effective that pfizer or Moderna, an additional 15% are partially vaccinated.

    Coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccinations - Statistics and Research - Our World in Data
     
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  10. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    You are saying that you are going with "real world data" from the UK, when it was a claim that even the person that you quoted said was false? What data specifically has the UK released on that? How does it differ from a US official saying something in a press conference?

    Frankly, if you want to try to go on about other people lying about numbers, you should probably get your numbers correct, which you have failed to do in this thread.
     
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  11. GatorNorth

    GatorNorth Premium Member Premium Member

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    Different countries with access to different vaccines could result in different numbers without anyone "lying". The difference in this case is significant (seemingly 3% VS 40% but I need more facts to know that one country is lying and 2 others aren't.
     
  12. G8R92

    G8R92 GC Hall of Fame

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    Have an unvaccinated employee that tested positive for COVID and has to quarantine for 10 days. Is the quarantine the same 10 days if you're vaccinated and test positive?
     
  13. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes. As more and more people get vaccinated, the percentage of hospitalizations that come from breakthrough cases should also go up. In other words, if just 50% of a country is vaccinated, we should see more unvaxxed in the hospital. But if 75% of a country is vaccinated, then the numbers in the hospital should look a lot more "even" in the hospitals. But it's not really even, because there are 3X more many vaccinated than unvaxxed.

    Looking at the original link 95 posted is where I got total hospitalization and total UK vaccination rates. And nearly 70% of the country is fully vaccinated, but only 40% of the hospitalizations are breakthrough cases. And yes, I would expect this number to be higher than the US because in the UK, a significant portion got the Asta-Zeneca vaccine, which isn't as effective as the vaccines approved in the US, of which, AZ was never approved.

    You know, if 100% of the people were fully vaccinated, there would still be breakthrough cases, with some hospitalizations. And at this point, 100% of the hospitalizations would be from people who got the vaccine, and 0% from unvaxxed. Using your logic, you would say this would make the vaccine completely ineffective at stopping COVID hospitalizations! :rolleyes:

    And again, severity of the cases is also important. How many breakthrough deaths are there versus unvaxxed deaths? Because if the vaccine prevents death and total hospitalizations, that's a win.
     
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  14. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Even if this
    Even if the SARS-CoV-2 virus leaked from the Wuhan Virology lab which is a distinct possibility, it was most likely the result of sloppy procedures by researchers conducting research on the bat virus. Very unlikely that it was genetically engineered.
     
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  15. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 8, 2007
    Expanding on (1), a majority of patients in the UK have been vaccinated using the AstraZeneca vaccine. In the US the majority of vaccinated persons have received the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) which are apparently more effective against the Delta variant especially with respect to preventing serious cases among vaccine recipients who do contract the virus.
     
  16. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

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    Real world proof: That the Astra-Zeneca shot is clearly inferior to mRNA vaccines that most of the people in the US were vaccinated with?
     
  17. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    the numbers were what has been quoted. But hey, you keep making up excuses. I mean, you know what you’re right, the CDC hasn’t lied at all during the whole Covid pandemic…

    Some people believe anything they are told. The best part is you know the US is lying and when it comes out that the numbers were wrong, you will deflect and make up more BS. That’s what the best part is for me.
     
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  18. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    As a reminder, you posted a false number that had already been corrected when you posted it here, presumably because you believed it (or you lied). And now you are declaring that other people are lying based on that number.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  19. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    I provided proof the US govt said 99% were hospitalized. Oops. You lose again. It’s a recurring theme with you. It’s ok. In a few weeks when the data “all of a sudden” changes you will claim you never said it was correct. Just like with schools, lockdowns, masks… It’s too easy
     
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  20. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    It's possible that only 1% of the people vaccinated have ended up in the hospital, but this number comes with a lot of explanation. There's a chart in this link that shows total US hospitalizations. If we assume the average hospitalization rate YTD is about 3,000 a day, that would put over 5,500,000 in the hospital. Previous link had about 5,500 breakthrough hospitalizations, which would be 1%. But is is really a good comparison? One would expect, and we did see bumps in hospital visits a few weeks after Christmas. But what percentage of the population was vaccinated on this date six months ago? Maybe 10%? With such a small number vaccinated, and the vaccine preventing a significant number of hospitalizations, we would expect breakthrough hospitalization rates in January to be miniscule, and even lower than 1%.

    As Homer Simpson once said, and you are the perfect case study, "Aw, you can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forfty percent of all people know that." The more people vaccinated, the more people will have breakthrough cases, and the more will end up in the hospital. But this statistic is meaningless unless you also look at total case rates and total hospitalization rates, which go down as vaccination rates go up. The Brits, using a significant percentage of the AZ vaccine, which is less effective than anything used in the US, have said their overall hospitalization rates of vaccinated people is 5%, or 20 times less than the unvaxxed. As we hopefully approach higher vaccination rates, we'll see if the 1% holds true for the vaccines we have been using on this side of the pond.
     
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