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why are so many fully vacinated testing positive?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by buckeyegator, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. RealGatorFan

    RealGatorFan Premium Member

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    I'm not disagreeing or twisting the efficacy of the vaccine, but if the Pfizer vaccine is 64% effective, then seeing 36 of every 100 vaccinated people getting the Delta variant would be statistically accurate. But CNN again has their stupid agenda, and last week ran a front page article of one person who was vaccinated that did get the breakthrough virus and it had hospitalized her. She's fine, didn't die, but it kicked her butt and she was in her 30s. Now if you are trying to get people to get vaccinated, wouldn't you instead be posting more positive articles? Yet CNN keeps scaring people because it sells. Fear keeps people reading and right now there are as many people unvaccinated as vaccinated so they are covering their bases.
     
  2. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

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    In fact, the vaccine interaction with the virus is almost nil. Mutations occur because the RNA replication process is flawed to begin with. Sometimes those flaws result in a superior (more fit copy) and sometimes that result in the virus extinction due to inability to further replicate.

    The vaccine provokes the human immune system to recognize, try to stop the virus and as a last defense destroy the infected cells. The vaccine really does not interact with the virus itself, so I reject the entire hypothesis the way that it is stated.
     
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  3. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Mind you, I’m not knowledgeable on this by any stretch. I totally defer to the experts, and “predicting how viruses mutate” is probably something where even experts in virology (not even typical MD’s) defer to other experts in virology.

    But from a common sense perspective, the more “interactions” vaccinated people have with infected people, the more opportunities the virus has to infect even vaccinated people. Then once some vaccinated people are infected with breakthrough cases, they may pass the virus on to other “vaccinated” people, and the more that happens over time, the less effective the vaccines are - because we would be dealing with a strain of virus that has been effectively jumping between vaccinated people. That’s what I mean by “chipping away” at the immunity over time.

    I guess to really understand this, we’d need to understand how and why breakthrough cases happen in the first place (is it weak immune response for that individual, or is it that they encountered a mutated strain of virus, and if it was a mutated strain was that “coincidental” or was it because the virus has gotten more efficient at defeating the vaccines).
     
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  4. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist

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    I don’t mind getting another shot. What I don’t like is spending a year and a half secluded in my house to finally be set free by a vaccine…and then a few weeks later basically being told that I am no longer vaccinated.

    And I am being a little bit facetious with the “freaked out” label, but I was expecting a year or so before people told me that a booster was required.
     
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  5. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    The numbers don’t really suggest there is urgency though.

    Otherwise unvaccinated wouldn’t be 99% of hospitalizations and deaths. If that ratio started dropping precipitously (and the overall hospitalizations and deaths started surging again), then that would tell you something more definitively that new vaccines/boosters are needed.

    This thinking is probably why the CDC message to Pfizer was basically “what the hell are you doing”.
     
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  6. persuader

    persuader GC Legend

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    If the government actually had the guts to mandate a vax, then we all would have been “set free” by now.
    I don’t understand how the estimated 40-50% of conservatives, who say they will not get vaccinated, can’t see that their decision is an absolute risk to our national security.
     
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  7. persuader

    persuader GC Legend

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    @antny1
    I’m fairly certain that these new mRNA vaccines don’t actually contain any killed or live virus. That’s what makes them different than the traditional vaccines that have been previously developed.
    The mRNA based vax occupies the receptor sites on the cell wall that the protein in the virus uses to infect the cell. No receptor site available = no disease transmission if you’re exposed.
    I think the “breakthrough” cases are due to that fact that you can’t guarantee that every possible cell in the human body can be covered. So, if you’re exposed to Covid, there is still a chance for infection. But, given the fact that a high majority of our cell’s receptor sites are occupied by the protein created by the vax, any exposure results in a smaller viral load and, therefore, a more minimized symptom of infection.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  8. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    The problem is that they receive their "news" from what is essentially a self-reinforcing hermetically sealed echo chamber. They're probably convinced that the Covid vaccines are experimental, that they're at low risk from an infection, that the side effects from the vaccine are worse than an infection (an absurd false premise but let's not forget they're constantly exposed to false narratives that they accept as truth), and that not receiving the vaccination is a statement against a dictatorial government. Said it before if Trump promoted vaccinations the way he has promoted the absurd narrative that he won the election vaccine hesitancy among self-identified Republicans would be well under 10 percent and the Fox News Infotainment stars would probably be promoting vaccinations as a civic duty.
     
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  9. persuader

    persuader GC Legend

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    Yep. And all the members of Congress, along with fox spews personalities like hannity, carlson, etc, that keep pushing these false-narratives, are likely vaccinated against Covid.
    Go figure.
     
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  10. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Agree. Not only are they hypocrites they're willing to perpetuate a false narrative putting their own followers at risk of serious illness and even death to score political points or to gain ratings.
     
  11. persuader

    persuader GC Legend

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    My father, mother, brother, and sister-in-law are all hardcore trump supporters. Of that group, my dad is the only one to have gotten the vax (he’s a retired Veterinarian). To the other three I’ve posed some form of this series of questions:
    If you have a heart attack, would you go to the hospital and trust the physicians there to treat you effectively? Do you walk into your home, or cross a bridge in your car, and trust that those structures will not collapse? Do you go to the supermarket and buy food products with relative trust that they can be safely consumed? Do you use products for personal hygiene that are applied directly to your skin, or products that are in any way ingested or come in contact with your mucous membranes, with relative confidence they will not kill you?
    To all these types of questions they all answer “yes”. My response is “These things are all accomplished through scientific study. Why would you trust science in all other aspects of your life, but, denounce it in this one specific case?”
    Their responses have ranged from comical to absurd.
     
  12. Claygator

    Claygator GC Hall of Fame

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    The "vaccines" aren't really vaccines. Vaccines prevent you from contracting the disease, period. These do not.
     
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  13. dangolegators

    dangolegators GC Hall of Fame

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    You don't know what a vaccine is.
     
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  14. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    And yet Trump was one of the first to get vaccinted. Just another inconsistency
    that makes no sense
     
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  15. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    MMR provides 88% protection against mumps. It is a vaccine. Try again.
     
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  16. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Why did Trump and his whole family get vaccinated as soon as it was available if they dont endorse it?
     
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  17. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    No vaccine ever is 100% effective
     
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  18. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Not even remotely true. Flu vaccine is notoriously only 50% effective.

    For a coronavirus, for this COVID-19 virus, 1 year ago nobody even thought 90% success was possible. Most were probably hoping for 50-60%. Yet, 90%+ is what we have.
     
  19. MeyerIsBack

    MeyerIsBack GC Legend

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    Any idea which vaccine?
     
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  20. Swamplizard

    Swamplizard VIP Member

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