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Who can fight China

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by CRIMDEFgator, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    Yeah, we probably aren't going to do that or depart Okinawa, unless we ourselves have some rather comprehensive changes in policy.
     
  2. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

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    We don't have to depart, just need to have the burden lessened (as i said above). We have about 50,000 troops in Japan alone. They pay us a bit to be there but not nearly what it costs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  3. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

    Apr 8, 2007
    But that didn't just start with Trump.
     
  4. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Didn’t say it did. But he has definitely ramped up the quantities and offering the more advanced versions
     
  5. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    The only area where they would hold an advantage would be in defending their coast or a nearby territory if we attempted a land invasion. That wouldn’t even hold if we cleaned it out from the air first.

    Their ships, subs, planes, helicopters and definitely their munitions do not yet compare you ours in capability or quantity.
     
  6. Trickster

    Trickster Premium Member

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    You’re right.
     
  7. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

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    You are incorrect. They were catching up in many aspects 15 years ago when I was flying against them and they have continued to improve.
    An Interactive Look at the U.S.-China Military Scorecard
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Ah, the relativism argument. Does not matter who the Dems nominate. Don’t blame the Dems for their nominee. Blame Trump voters who accept authoritarianism from an incompetent as better.
     
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  9. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Just finished reading Fred Kaplan’s’ “The Bomb”, which I highly recommend. Common theme is that every new presidential administration comes in trying to figure out a way to win a nuclear war or make it more predictable and phased, and all Ultimately realized the futility of that exercise. You cannot win a nuclear war
     
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  10. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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  11. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Disagree strongly. The other countries will never be able to defend against Russia and China without her assistance. It’s not a matter of how much they put into their defense. Plus we have reasons for not wanting them to maximize their defenses, and our own interests. Finally, they’ve been stepping up anyway, long before Trump.

    Edited to add. When he says it, that’s just an excuse. He’s just trying to weaken NATO to do service for Putin
     
  12. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Of course it matters who the Dems put up. It is everything. Put up Sanders and kiss the next 4 years goodbye. Nominate Warren, 4 more years of devolution. The Dems need a solid strong winnable candidate. It is all that matters.

    As for authoritarianism, remember Germany was a democracy before Hitler. Hitler was not popular or mainstream when he came to power. He was able to stay in power because the political opposition parties were so divisive that they were unable to agree on anything or anyone. So Hitler skated to an authoritarian regime, because his opposition had no viable alternative.
     
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  13. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

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    I don’t actually expect them to totally stand up to either Russia or China, I just would like the US to shoulder much less of the burden.
     
  14. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    I understand. And in a different political environment, I would agree. I just think that our traditional alliances with democracies are under concerted attack for totalitarian purposes, so I hate to give even unintended seeming support to those critiques
     
  15. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Doesn’t matter to me. I will vote for anyone of the candidates against Trump. Don’t make excuses for candidates being “weak.” There is no alternative but to get rid of Donald Trump. Prefer the more moderate candidates. But will vote for the principles our nation has stood for. Anyone who does not see the choice clearly is deluding himself.
     
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  16. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    People like you understand the inalienable value of truth and integrity. But are you the minority or majority? And why risk fate? Bloomberg is the one candidate that Trump has no credible attack. Bloomberg is richer than Trump and more successful than Trump. He has a thankfully not as much as a child-bully, nor as much of an egomaniac, but he can stand toe to toe and won every comparable metric. Sanders cannot. Warren cannot. And I doubt Buttigeg or Klobuchar can win.
     
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  17. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I’m not arguing that they have improved. But they are not close.

    Did you fly F-18C or E?
     
  18. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

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    I was a bubblehead and then a p3 guy. I was with the wing that got bumped out of the sky by Hainan Island in early 2000's.
    Also flew a crapload of missions around the spratley's. Fun times.

    Take a look at the Rand link i posted on how close (or better than us) they are. Again, that changes as they have to project past 1000 miles, but they have game in some areas.
     
  19. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Will do, thanks. I agree on the distance limits that they can project.
    They have gained a good bit in capability, but the consistency and reliability also lag far behind ours. Our capability and readiness will substantially increase next year as the Sustainment spending for spare parts will start delivering hardware to the services. We are spread way to thin now to have to cannibalize parts the way we were doing.
    The P3 is an amazing piece of equipment. What it’s sensors can pick up is incredible. I can see why the Russians and Chinese hate when they are around.

    The Navy is also adding the old IRST capability from the Tomcats to the Hornet fleet.
     
  20. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

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    P3 was a beast. When I was wrapping up flight school, I had my choice of platforms and I shocked everyone with my choice. However, I had already spent most of my 20's out at sea, so I chose an aircraft that couldn't land on a carrier. It was great duty. The missions were varied and I was the senior guy on board. So when we hit something like Australia or Thailand, I wasn't with 10,000 sailors. It was just me and 10 of my friends.
    They are mostly gone from regular duty squadrons, my buddies all fly the P-8 now.