Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

Who can fight China

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by CRIMDEFgator, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. CRIMDEFgator

    CRIMDEFgator GC Hall of Fame

    1,179
    51
    248
    Apr 10, 2007
    I get it with you liberals hating Trump. My wife doesn’t like him either and comes from a very liberal family. But the United States’ worst modern enemy is BY FAR CHINA. There is no close second and place. Trump is the only guy to take them on straight up. Re-arming Japan and Taiwan are a start. Unless you are a Bernie Bro this is “duh” stuff in terms of US survival. Guys like Bloomberg are tied into Xi with so many tens of billions in deals they cannot be considered. Bernie can be considered but he will destroy our economy in the year. Tulsi Gabbard was reasonable. She’s done. Klobuchar looks on her way out. Do you guys want to be fully owned by China. Vote Bloomberg,suckers.
     
    • Funny Funny x 6
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 2
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    7,619
    522
    243
    Apr 3, 2007
    Trump has basically surrendered to China, pulling out of the TPP and telling Japan and ROK that we may not honor defense obligations. Duterte is generally weird, but his weirdness was enabled by the fact that we are abandoning Asia and they have to make piece with the regional hegemon that the only power capable of checking I’d failing to do so.

    The cononavirus threat may undermine the legitimacy of Xi’s government and scramble all, but for right now, 45’s Great Powers mindset is handing China regional domination.

    Your post could hardly be more misguided.
     
    • Winner Winner x 6
  3. citygator

    citygator Premium Member

    3,253
    809
    798
    Apr 3, 2007
    Charlotte
    Trump is rightly focused a bit on intellectual property. That's the good news. He is misguided on focusing on the trade deficit through tariffs. If China wants to sell us cheap goods the benefit is too us, not against us. Tariffs are stifling business not helping.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. danmann65

    danmann65 GC Hall of Fame

    1,010
    253
    348
    May 22, 2015
    This reminds me of the 80s and 90s when the fear was that Japan was going to out produce us. China is a concern but nothing to fear. They have a real estate bubble that makes our last one look like a single blackhead versus a boil. I am watching with interest to see if micro managing an economy can slowly let the air out of a bubble. My money is on no but I have been wrong before.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

    8,414
    453
    358
    Apr 8, 2007
    China won't make the same mistakes that did in the USSR. They are playing the long game. They are waiting for us to rot from within (we are well on our way btw) as they gradually expand their sphere of influence. It isn't even about "conquering" us and more about them achieving a role of supremacy on the world stage as our influence wanes. All that being said, they certainly have a host of their own challenges that can undermine their goals. Historically they see themselves as masters of the world anyway, hence the term "middle kingdom" i.e. center of the world.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. nolancarey

    nolancarey GC Hall of Fame

    1,684
    274
    278
    Aug 16, 2009
    Tariffs aren't exactly stopping their projects in other countries. They have their hands in most of Asia and parts of Africa, doing infrastructure work that trump won't even do in the U.S. unless it's a pointless wall. So while they are manufacturing goodwill and opening up channels for future ownership of rare materials in Africa, trump is making U.S. corn and soy less viable longterm. They're digging up materials that will be useful for battery energy storage and trump still thinks coal is the future. They are building rail and roadways in other countries while trump calls those same places "shit-hole countries".

    If you're worried about military realities, just know that trump is still allowing China to create a greater sphere of influence while worrying more about domestic tech. The best thing trump could do is appeal to China's capitalist tendencies in ways that activate democratic possibilities. But he's more concerned with short-term wins that might look good for a presidential run. He's screwing over farmers who will vote for him anyway in order to try to point to hollow "wins" in some short-sighted aspects in foreign relations.
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

    1,028
    364
    488
    Dec 4, 2015
    Georgia
    Trump's top economic adviser has always been anti-tariff and even now contradicts trump on the impact of those tariffs.
    Kudlow's admission about who pays tariffs contradicts Trump

    While I am personally not feeling the impact of the tariffs directly (I am indirectly as I subsidize farmers), my company has been hit hard and it's not like there are options for the product we buy from them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Off-topic Off-topic x 1
  8. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

    Apr 8, 2007
    Is Trump re-arming Japan?
     
  9. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    If we're actually in an existential war with China, we should just surrender now lol.
     
  10. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    After watching American Factory, I'm convinced the Chinese capitalists are every bit as stupid as American capitalists. Their only real advantage is that they can more ruthlessly use the boot on their people, but that's really the only trick they have in their locker. And its a trick that has diminishing returns.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    4,720
    609
    438
    Apr 16, 2007
    Yeah, their main “advantage” has basically been their ability to employ slave labor. Middle class workers can’t compete with slave labor. If you are a capitalist, and there is a “legal” way to replace your middle class labor force with slaves, you are going to do it. I remember some market based pushback in the 90’s (boycotts of goods built with 3rd world slaves and such), and I remember Republicans laughing about this as a real issue. The market spoke. Nobody cared about where goods were sourced, price is/was more important.

    You can count me into the “lower prices please” camp, but I’ll admit I get annoyed when I see higher priced or higher tier stuff that shifted to Chinese manufacturing. I always felt like it made sense for low priced goods to be made there, inferior goods at Wal-Mart, but I thought companies risk lowering the perceived quality of their brand when they shift. But apparently there is very little people care about even on the higher end, as even a bunch of “luxury” brands are using China (or other 3rd world Asian) based manufacturing and have been for years.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    6,736
    2,100
    1,123
    Nov 25, 2017
    Trump’s China policies are idiotic. TPP was designed to reign in China by expanding our competitive sphere, but Trump announced that it was a bad deal, like all trade deals, proclaimed himself a great deal maker, and people just bough that falsehood without an ounce of understanding of what, or why, the deal was. So, we were left to make individual deals to find alternative markets. He then closed off the China markets when China retaliated with its tariffs. And “liberals” don’t hate Trump because off China. People of all stripes hate China because he is dishonest, sells out allies and US interests for his own personal gain and lies about it, xenophobic, punishes truth tellers to protect his lies, authoritarian and racist. Some of us never saw good people marching side by side with Nazis to protect symbols or racism. And we know the very reasons we hate Trump are the reasons his loyal base will stand by him, no matter what. Just like we saw on the impeachment proceedings when Trump issues illegal orders to witnesses to refuse to testify and the Trump supporters attacked the Dems for not calling those witnesses and running to Court to get orders that they show up to Congress. And they defend Trump Because most of them are just like him. Which is why his support in the Confederate states and similar states is so strong. His enablers. Who if Senators or Reps cross him, will vote them out of office, resulting in minority rule and an assault on out institutions. As he said in the 2106 Convention, he is their voice. If you define “liberals” as people who are not right wing authoritarians, then you have captured the swath of Trump “haters.” China has nothing to do with the disdain for Trump. Misguided policies are one thing. Creeping Authoritarianism is another. The man screams about a “deep state” not loyal to the country, but embodies it. And don’t confuse Trumpism with conservatism. They are very different.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
  13. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

    2,133
    423
    328
    Jan 15, 2008
    And who will the esteemed Democrats put up to stand against Trump, and every awful thing he represents? Bernie Sanders, who will destroy our economic system? Did you see the debate last night? The Democrats sounded like a bunch of whiny weasels. This void of true leadership is the monumental problem that we are facing. This void is what is allowing the autocracy to flourish.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

    1,090
    205
    388
    Apr 24, 2007
    Yes, he is. They are getting the upgrades and more quantities of the most advanced air defense capabilities that we have. Systems that defend against both aircraft and missiles.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    This has more to do with Abe than Trump (and it was rather controversial in Japan), but its true Japan is remilitarizing. What could go wrong?

    Japan: the rise of its new militarism could change the world

     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  16. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

    1,090
    205
    388
    Apr 24, 2007
    Don’t believe for one second that China could last more than an hour in an actual shooting war with us. They are expanding their capabilities and could inflict some early surprise damage until the Triad takes over. Then they’re done in about 20 minutes.

    Sierra’s assessment is correct
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  17. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    If we get into a nuclear war with China, I don't think they'd be the only ones "done." Anyways, I tend to think the more in debt we are with China, the safer we are from Chinese militarism. Its that whole idea of if I owe you $1 I have a problem, if I owe you $1,000,000 you have a problem. If Sierra's assessment is correct, and China is a threat, that's sort of a tacit admission that we also see ourselves as masters of the world, and must therefor compete to the death.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

    1,028
    364
    488
    Dec 4, 2015
    Georgia
    You seem fairly confident in your assessment of China's military, I don't share that assessment in the least. They have reached parity with the US in several areas, especially as the conflict grows closer to their mainland. If the was is off San Diego, that's one thing. If the war is within 1000 miles of their mainland, totally different scenario.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 GC Hall of Fame

    1,028
    364
    488
    Dec 4, 2015
    Georgia
    They need to do away with their self defense force (SDF) and expand their military to help keep China/NK in check and lessen the burden on us.
    One of the few things Trump had right was that Nato and other countries need to take responsibility for their own defense. Of course, that only helps us if we have a cutback in our military spending.