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Where are you at with Mike?

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by tilly, Feb 13, 2020.

Where do you stand with Mike White?

  1. 100% on board regardless of the remaining games. (baring unforeseen epic collapse)

    44.3%
  2. Has to make the dance to want him back

    10.2%
  3. Need to make the 2nd weekend with this group, or I am am on board with a change.

    9.0%
  4. 100% want him replaced regardless of the remaining games this season. (except deep run in tourney)

    12.0%
  5. Must make the dance AND agree to shake up his staff for the sake of the offense.

    24.6%
  1. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    For those posters who are satisfied with what the Gators have done under White, then you should want him to continue as the Gator coach. For those posters who are not satisfied with what the Gators have done under White, then you should not want him to continue as the Gator coach, unless you think that the Gators will do better under White down the road than they have done so far. I am not satisfied with what the Gators have done so far under White.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    Whether or not anybody is satisfied with what the GATORS have done under White is completely unrelated to whether the results can rightfully be called "average at best." I would like to see more from Coach White as well, but I recognize what we have here now is still well above average (even above average within the SEC, presumably above average within the top 50 teams in the country).

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. twodaparty

    twodaparty GC Hall of Fame

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    I’m not sure how hard we pushed after Mack. No one (including you) know what kind of effort we made. Mack, Archie Miller and Grant are guys I would have taken ahead of Mike. Greg Marshall is also someone I would have thrown a lot of money at because money eventually talks (Calipari leaving for Kentucky) and Wichita State can’t outbid Florida if it became a bidding contest.
     
  4. INGATORSWETRUST

    INGATORSWETRUST GC Hall of Fame

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    Florida
  5. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    Our meanings of “average” are different. There are 350 Division One men’s basketball teams. So, by one definition, if a team is consistently around the 175th best team in the country, it’s average. That doesn’t work for me. Yes, technically, the Gators are an above average team as are almost all of the Big 5 conference basketball teams. By that standard, Gator basketball is way above average. So were the Gator football teams under Zook, Muschamp and McElwain. To me, those were below average Gator football teams. I am giving an average to Mike White’s Gator basketball team and an unacceptable if it continues.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    But the football team is:

    - near the top in terms of revenue
    - near the top in terms of willingness for the athletics department to do whatever it takes to be successful
    - near the top in terms of overall fan support

    The standard is clearly different for football. Still, I wouldn't say that our expectations are not extraordinarily high, it's that the pieces are in place to be successful (we believe, at least) with extraordinarily high expectations.

    You can't hold basketball to the same standard as football because the resources and the passion are not there by nearly as many people (and dollars) to have an equivalent type of expectation of success. But let's just do the math here, let's say we're average among the best 25 teams in college basketball (if not, tell me how far off I am, we were talking about NCAA Tournament success over the past 4 seasons), that means we're in the middle of the top 7% of the sport. If we were in the middle of the top 7% of football, would that be considered average? Is Mike White even getting paid that much, he wasn't last year (not in top 30 head coaching salaries last year).

    I just think "average" is hyperbolic description of what is going on.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
    • Best Post Ever Best Post Ever x 1
  7. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    I don’t know what... or even, if we offered Mack. But I was told that there was a strong indication given that he was not interested. Mack is a Midwest guy, was coaching at his alma mater and many correctly believed he was waiting on the UL job.
    Archie isn’t setting the world on fire at IU, and probably unfairly- I have him tainted by his brother’s actions. Lol.
    And Marshall is nut.... outdone only by his looney wife!
    So we are back to Grant- but he is headed to Miami. ;)
     
  8. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    Clearly average can be construed in multiple ways. There are 14 teams in the SEC. We have had two 8th place finishes in the SEC under White. That’s below average. We had a 2nd and 3rd place finish in the SEC in Chiozza’s 2 years playing for White. That’s above average. Cheese doesn’t grow on trees (pun intended). Maybe we will be better next year or turn things around this year. The chance of White being let go after this year is remote, so all the talk about hiring Grant or another coach is meaningless for now. I hope that White turns it around, but I don’t like his offense or his substitution patterns, and we are not seeing much improvement from year to year with his returning players. In the meantime, we will all continue to root for him and the team.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. jmac83

    jmac83 GC Legend

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    aka, I've noticed you make this argument repeatedly over time. I'm curious why.

    Obviously, the prominence of the UF basketball program is a Billy Donovan creation, but it wasn't a cult of personality. The Rowdies did not arise because they were Billy acolytes. The crowd environment at the O'Dome did not earn its reputation because fans were there to scream hysterically for Billy. The attributes of going to school at UF were discovered thanks to Billy's success, but he didn't invent them. Coach Donovan sent a decent number of kids to the NBA, but it's not like he set a standard for a pipeline that no successor could ever hope to match.

    What I'm driving at is, why would fans expect the standard (I hate "brand") for Florida basketball to diminish after the guy who set that standard left? I felt, and still feel, Billy helped establish a program that was bigger than the talents of any one coach.
     
  10. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    The fans arrived because the team was good . . . the team was good because the players were good. And those good players were there because of Donovan.

    As I've asked earlier - what do you think was the overriding reason top recruits came to Florida during Billy's tenure? Was it to play for Donovan or to play for Florida. I think it was very heavily slanted toward the former.

    Now this can be true for most schools. Certainly players go to Duke to play for Coach K, but there is a still a portion of that equation in which there is the allure of playing for Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, etc.
    As much as I hate admitting it, the overriding allure here wasn't to play for Florida- at least not in the same way it was/is for the fore mentioned schools. No, it was very, very much Donovan.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. GatorLurker

    GatorLurker VIP Member

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    We are 8-4 in league play. We beat #2 Auburn like a drum. We beat #4 South Carolina on their home floor. We barely lost to #3 LSU on their home floor with less than a tenth of a second between a loss and OT. Our play against UK with two late season games will tell us a lot. In previous years playing UK late twice would favor UK, but this year it might favor UF.

    And we all agree that the team has under-performed from the unrealistic preseason expectations, but get a grip. Those expectations were off the charts.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Wish I would have said that Wish I would have said that x 1
  12. twodaparty

    twodaparty GC Hall of Fame

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    What has Duke accomplished without K? Barely anything. They have no guarantee of success when he’s done. They could just as easily turn into Indiana.
     
  13. jmac83

    jmac83 GC Legend

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    Fair enough. We disagree on the allure of the UF program and the overall environment of going to school and playing ball in Gainesville. To answer the question you raised earlier, I would say early in Billy's tenure, recruits came exclusively for the coach. By the time he attained great success, I believe the attraction was much more diverse. It's a different magnet than going to a hoops-dominated town like Lawrence or Lexington, but a very compelling one.
     
  14. twodaparty

    twodaparty GC Hall of Fame

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    Even if I GRANT you Mack and Archie, the excuse on Marshall is Lame. The guy is a damn good basketball coach and would kill it at a school with the resources of UF.

    By the way, Florida was a big part of why Billy was able to take it to the next level. If it was all the coach he wouldn’t have needed to leave Marshall for Florida and could have done it there on his own. Ironically, kind of like how Marshall (Greg) is trying to do it on his own at Wichita. The Florida name and past glimpses of success was a major reason as to why Billy was able to accomplish what he did here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  15. FranceGator

    FranceGator GC Hall of Fame

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    It feels like you are somewhat disqualifying those two good seasons, saying it was Cheese, not CMW. Not sure that sits right...was there something about Cheese under Billy that screamed "single-handedly saving a season for a below-average coach"?

    Let's count those seasons. And the games so far this season. Add up the conference wins and losses for all SEC teams since CMW started. Would UF be below average, average or above average?

    Might bet: above average. Maybe 4th.

    Do the same for NCAA games. I bet it's higher.

    Still not top 2, but above average in the SEC.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    I think you are taking this a bit too seriously. The Marshall part was mostly a joke, though I do think he is a schmuck and his wife is, indeed, a total nut.
    Marshall, I presume has had other suitors, yet has remained at Wichita. I’m guessing there is a reason why.
     
  17. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    Without adding it up, I'd guess we are #2 in regular season SEC wins since Coach White has been here.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
  18. twodaparty

    twodaparty GC Hall of Fame

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    People said the same thing about Chris Peterson at Boise being a lifer.

    What about the other part of my post? I think there are some solid things I point out.
     
  19. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Yes... some good points. Certainly Foley and Florida helped provide some tools for success.
    But I think within the basketball world, Florida’s success was almost wholly and exclusively tied to Donovan.
    Billy’s achievements were on par with any blue blood program, but when he left... he didn’t leave a blue blood program in his wake. What he left was an astounding run of success and the palpable question of, “what will florida be without billy?”.
    Look- I’m not saying we can’t be great again, or that we don’t have the coach, tools or attributes. I just think people sometimes overstate what White inherited. In my opinion, it was not a self-sustaining hoops machine. Imo, he took over a program PERCEIVED to have enjoyed an incredible run with a HOF coach, but one that would now fall back to its normal history of moderate achievement.
    Internally and within the fan base- expectations were/are much higher. And I think Mike will get us there... but this was never going to be a seamless transition. Florida is not that re-load type program where guys come for the name on the jersey. Not in basketball, anyway.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  20. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    yeah- I’m not trying to sound as if Florida is a terrible basketball destination. It’s not.
    But Billy achieved at the levels of duke, Kentucky, Kansas, etc.
    And despite this- he almost always lost those recruiting battles.
    Why?
    Because there is a gap between those schools and Florida as it relates to perception within the hoops world.
    And that gap grew significantly when Billy left Florida.
    I very much believe Mike is the right guy ... and will shorten the gap, and circumvent it... as Billy did.
    But this wasn’t going to be a seamless transition. And the suggestion that Mike inherited what billy left.... ignores the fact that much of what billy left... left with him.
     
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