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Where are you at with Mike?

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by tilly, Feb 13, 2020.

Where do you stand with Mike White?

  1. 100% on board regardless of the remaining games. (baring unforeseen epic collapse)

    44.3%
  2. Has to make the dance to want him back

    10.2%
  3. Need to make the 2nd weekend with this group, or I am am on board with a change.

    9.0%
  4. 100% want him replaced regardless of the remaining games this season. (except deep run in tourney)

    12.0%
  5. Must make the dance AND agree to shake up his staff for the sake of the offense.

    24.6%
  1. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Two of the teams you named won titles during these 'slide' periods. . . .UK and UCONN. In addition to his title, Tubby went to the Elite 8 three other times during a 10-year tenure.
    Two others - UCLA and IU - went to the national finals with coaches they ultimately canned. Heck, at UCLA - Howland went to two final fours, and before him... Lavin went to the Sweet 16 five out of six years.
    How is this possible? Well, blue blood programs will continue to attract players bc of the name on the jersey. Sure, poor coaching will ultimately catch-up . . . but the reality is, some of the guys fired on this list had more accomplished tenures than some of the ‘successful’ coaches in Florida history.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  2. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    I will admit, that IS surprising.
     
  3. number1

    number1 GC Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. BillyBall89

    BillyBall89 GC Legend

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    I've stayed relatively quiet during this turbulence but I'll chime in

    Comparing Florida to a blue blood is a bit disingenuous. But so is the idea of relegating Florida to "Football School" status. Every school that is considered traditionally good at basketball had to start somewhere.

    I think we're arriving, slowly, at an important point that I think is overlooked. Florida basketball is at a crossroads IMO and I think this shows in this discussion. I think some fans think of Billy as an anomaly that Florida was simply lucky to land and just want Florida to be competitive on the national scene on a regular basis. Some wanted it to be the beginning of Florida being a basketball powerhouse. That divide is being seen in the support of Mike White now. I think it has a lot to do with each individual fan's vision of what the program should be.

    I think this fact has reached a head this season because the pieces of this team put that majority of fans in the mindset of "if not now, when" in regards to their own expectations and as the losses pile up, more and more people jump on the "maybe never" train.

    Personally? My frustrations are more with things Ive seen over several seasons. White's at this point what can only be called total unwillingness to call timeout when the other team is making a run until were down by 15-20. The inability of his teams to play loose until were down or up by the same scores. The consistent inconsistency.

    Now let me fully admit some of my grievances are just personal pet peeves. For example, one thing that made me extra ticked at Muschamp was the way we lost. I know a loss is a loss, but a shootout is a lot more fun to watch than a defensive battle where every mistake is magnified and has you pulling your hair out. But part of it is me wondering if we arent squandering a lot of our talent because our coach has hit his ceiling and its just too low for us ever to have a shot to make a run again. As someone who likes Mike White as a person, and wants someone like him to represent our program rather than some of these car salesman coaches, I hope my growing suspicion is wrong.
     
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  5. regurgigator

    regurgigator VIP Member

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    My suggestion is that you delete this post immediately! :eek::ninja2:

    Disappointed fans are going to see what they want to see.

    I have mentioned many times my recollection of there being huge amounts of angst on this board during the last few years of Billy's tenure about offensive deficiencies, including some years when there were mutinous rumblings about our inability to get off a decent shot in the last few minutes of close games (much worse than out current team's inability to hit open shots for stretches at a time). "But my words like silent raindrops fell." :cool:

    I'm sure you will continue to hear that our offense sucks - even though our KenPom efficiency has recently been ranked in the Top 30 in the country.

    That we shouldn't shoot many threes, because the team sucks at it - although I believe we lead SEC play in 3-point percentage.

    That we turn the ball over too much, because our ball-handling sucks - even though we have the fewest turnovers in SEC play.

    That every player on the team has regressed (or possibly digressed), because White sucks at developing players - even though all our returning players (that haven't been derailed by injury) have gotten better statistically and Blackshear is very close to his stats from last year despite losing a lot of minutes due to foul trouble (and my perception has been that I haven't even been able to see the contact on about half those fouls - but I've been called warped before on this board).

    So, tread carefully! Stats don't always mean much here if they don't support a favored perception.
     
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  6. tundragator

    tundragator GC Legend

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    What are point averages for each individual year?
     
  7. tundragator

    tundragator GC Legend

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    15-16 74.4

    16-17 77.9

    17-18 75.8

    18-19 67.8

    19-20 72.8
     
  8. INGATORSWETRUST

    INGATORSWETRUST GC Hall of Fame

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    I think the 2 transfers will help in terms of experience and continuity next year. Just too young a team with no 3/4 year UF program players on this team. Mostly his fault for poor recruiting his first few seasons. However, like his efforts last year and this year on the recruiting front. Really like the “Russian”. If we play poorly next year, I think it would be time to look for a different coach. Give him a pass for this year. Compare his record to Shaka Smart who everyone wanted rather than White. Recruited better than White, but has a worse record at TX. Who would you hire? Who would want to come replace White? I think White is just about to turn the corner. Remember Billy D had a losing record his last year at UF. Despite Florida being a huge state, surprisingly not as many great basketball players are coming from the State. Would think White would have better local recruiting opportunities, but has often had to go elsewhere for players. So did Billy D, as Miller, White, Lee, Harvey, Noah, Horford, Beal, Brewer, Hump, .. were all out of State kids. Hope that changes in the future as well.
     
  9. iam4uf

    iam4uf GC Hall of Fame

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    Honestly, I was shocked to see this. I've bitched about our lack of aggressiveness on offense, but mostly because we seem to play much better when we seem to be playing DDO.
     
  10. SeabudGator

    SeabudGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I thought MW was a home run hire. I still think he can be a good/great coach.

    HOWEVER, he seems to be wound incredibly tightly (coaches rigidly) and this seems to be reflected by players worried about messing up or not being put in spots to take best advantage of their skills. You can see it when things go bad (missing shots) and the offense tightens up further, hesitancy to fast break (how many dunks has scottie had on a fast break this year?), etc. Now, we played as loose as possible in the Nike tourney with Cheese et al so I know he can coach a team to play without mental reservations, but this issue and his rigidness are questions to me.

    Of course there are things he could improve (timeout use) but BD had many of these same issues in his early years. I am hopeful with MW b/c he is not stupid (not Muschamp) but great coaching means adjusting to get the most out of the players you have. Want more evidence of that but remain cautiously optimistic.
     
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  11. iam4uf

    iam4uf GC Hall of Fame

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    I do seem to recall people being upset about our inability to get shots off at the end of games & also our inability to inbound the ball, an area where White has excelled. I almost lost faith in Donovan during the four years in which we were ranked as high as 5,2,1,1 then lost in round 1/2. We were down again after winning two NC in a row, failing to make the tournament twice then losing in the 1st round. So, even with a HOF coach we had lean years between outstanding success. It seems to me that patience is in order with Coach White.
     
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  12. The_Graygator

    The_Graygator GC Hall of Fame

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    I didn't vote, because you didn't have a "he should be released after this season" selection. Yep, I still feel that way, just like when I said Foley hired him that it was a bad hire. You don't hire the coach from a ~ho-hum~ program like La. Tech to replace a legend like Donovan. I firmly believe we can do better than Mike White as I do not believe he is able to be consistent at this level, and beating what amounts to three patsies in a row doesn't change that sentiment either.

    I'm already seeing the "we've turned the corner" posts beginning again, for the umpteenth time, and we all know what's eventually going to happen... we're going to face some quality teams and lose some more critical games. It's the same thing all season, every season.

    Now, I congratulated White on his team's great effort this weekend, and I'm happy with the win, but I still do not believe he is the guy who will ever take us to a NC (won't ever happen under White, EVER), or even a conference title.
     
  13. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    Mike White is a good looking and fit guy. He speaks very well and appears to be of high character. He had 3 very good regular seasons as a coach in a one-bid league, but his team never got the one bid. Those were his credentials before he became the Gator coach. So his credentials probably were similar to or a little better than Billy’s before Billy became the head coach, with the exception that Billy’s mentor was Pitino.

    Billy’s hiring was a crap shoot, but his recruiting was spectacular early on, and the team played with great purpose on offense and reckless abandon on defense. They called it Billyball, and boy were they fun to watch. After 2 years of building up the roster, the Gators then went on a heck of a 9- year run that included 9 NCAA appearances, a 22 and 7 record in those appearances, 3 national title games and 2 national titles.

    Mike is in his 5th year. The team generally has played solid defense, but the offense is primarily based on someone breaking down his man off of penetration and scoring or drawing a defender and kicking to an open man. The offense looked pretty good with Cheese at the point and not so good otherwise although Nembhard is a talented player. Mike has been to the NCAA tournament in 3 of his 4 seasons at Florida and has had a 5 and 3 record in the tournament. So Mike’s success has been average at best. Based on this year’s expectations, and how the team plays in general, it is easy to understand why many knowledgeable fans would like to see Mike replaced, and why other knowledgeable fans still have high expectations for him. I will leave it at that other than to say that there are quite a few other coaches that Florida could hire who have better credentials than Mike had before he was hired as our head coach.
     
  14. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    I'd imagine, coupled with your strong opinion of who Florida should NOT hire . . . was one of who it SHOULD hire.
    So, who was that candidate for you back then?
     
  15. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Man. This is hard to argue with my friend. I have been a huge MW supporter who has wavered lately, but your points are valid indeed, and certainly part of the analysis that we should all be doing.
     
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  16. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    A pretty solid and fair post, but for the highlighted.
    The "average" program/coach does not make the elite 8, nor three consecutive tourneys. In fact, Florida is one of only 10 programs in the country to win at least 1 tourney game in each of the last three years.
    Perhaps you are weighing Mike's success by what you think it should be at Florida . . . which is fair. But it can not be described as "average" when comparing to the college basketball landscape.

    Also - I've asked this, and rarely get an answer. But I suspect you will provide. Who would you have hired when Billy left. My candidates were Mack and White. Mack was apparently not interested, but I was happy White was.

    Who was your pick?
     
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  17. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Um...he was fired and given a show cause. For a coach, that is even worse than having a couple games vacated.
     
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  18. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    Mine were Grant and Pelphrey because I wanted a continuation of the offense and defense that we were playing under Billy. I didn’t get much support, if any, from the other posters.
     
  19. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    yeah- I wasn’t on board with either, especially Pelph. I’m not a huge fan of how he operates as a coach.
     
  20. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    What is the context here?

    I would imagine there are fewer than 20 schools that have realized more success over the past 4 years as far as NCAA Tournament play goes. Even among all the teams that have received at-large bids over that span, his results would have to be considered "above average."

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS