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We need to be a fast break team

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by jeffphillips21, Dec 14, 2019.

  1. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 VIP Member

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    We all know how painful our half-court offense is, but this is a team that shouldn't have to rely on half-court offense nearly as much as most teams.

    The fast break should be at least as important to us, if not more, than our half-court offense is - in terms of focus and production. This team is built for it.

    1. We need to play more players
    2. We need to press more
    3. We need to play at a faster pace
    4. We need to push in transition

    All of these things are intertwined. When you play more players, those players can play harder and faster when they're on the court. Think hockey. Do you remember the last time anyone in hockey played slow? Or football? No, because it's typically an advantage to be faster. If you can maintain control. That is what we should be focused on, and that is what is going to make this team dangerous. Run "platoons" like lines in hockey. Wave after wave of fresh Gators. Wearing you down. Forcing you into mistakes. Unforced errors that lead to easy transition buckets.

    Can anyone explain to me why we're not already running this type of system? Especially with the personnel we have. I wonder how intelligent our staff is sometimes. Or how stubborn they are. We can all see it. Run, Gators, run.

    Instead, we see too much walking. But we need to be a fast break team. We need to use our speed and depth and wear teams down. Practice at a breakneck speed. So that when we're in the game it's like it slows down for us. Practice hard, win easy. Teams that aren't as deep and fast as us, will be at a significant disadvantage. They'll be gassed, hands on knees.

    It all starts with hitting the outlet man, then the next pass. We should be able to have the ball past half-court in 2 quick passes, taking no more than 5 seconds. Our big run straight up the floor and immediately get position inside. Watch how we did that on the press break with Horford for example, or the Lakers do with Anthony Davis. We used to try and do it with Egbunu and Patric Young. It results in a tremendous amount of easy buckets for them or allows them to wall their man off for others to drive inside.

    This should be our "system". Made or missed shot, we push the pace.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
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  2. dylan383

    dylan383 Premium Member

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    Not sure as to every answer but my guess is that Coach White has been taking it slow in the opening games to get the various players to gel. They have to be going faster and actually be able to score at a higher percentage when SEC play starts.
     
  3. HotlantaGator

    HotlantaGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Go to GatorZone and see the recent video presser with CMW.

    He addresses this exact question and says that if we went fast most of the time we would break the NCAA record for TOs, said only a couple guys on team good enough passers and decision makers to play fast.

    Think he said they analyzed their efficiency in transition/fast break opportunities, and they scored only 16% of time but turned it over 25% of the time in transition.

    He said that they totally scrapped their offensive system after 2 or 3 games, and they had to add a lot more structure because they thought this team could handle a free-flowing approach to O, but they couldn't.

    He said they are still working on the new O approach, but they realized early on that the whole plan they had been implementing since July had to be tossed.

    He said they need the freshmen to grow up fast, but the freshmen have a long way to go.

    He also said that if the team could start hitting their open jumpers at a decent rate team would look a lot better.

    It was a really good window in the team's situation, but it was sobering, it sounds like none of the freshmen are really going to be offensive playmakers off the bat, and it sounds like Noah Locke and KJ are in a little bit of sophomore slump.

    GO view the presser.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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  4. HotlantaGator

    HotlantaGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Watching it its easy to see that CMW isn't getting much sleep, he looks like he's been living at work for a while.
     
  5. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 VIP Member

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    Interesting. Thanks, I'll go check it out. It's surprising though if they've run the same system since July what really changed? I know sometimes you can't see problems until it's game time, but odd they wouldn't notice some tendencies during those 4 months that would shift their plans. I just think we have a lot of players getting used to the college game and new teammates, or both.

    A lot of younger teams, especially when you have so many new faces, are turnover prone at first. As they learn each other and the system. I would have just modified the fast-paced system, not have them go slow. They need to learn to play at pace without making mistakes.
     
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  6. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 VIP Member

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    Hopefully all that work and exhaustion leads to improvement. Not just about working hard, we need to work smart.
     
  7. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    I still say he plays/yanks players who embrace or screw up defensive assignments and rotations but he HAS to let the guys decide how to play offense. Whatever he is trying it just isn't working.

    Learning has to come after the game(s) in film review so they can see what they did and what works and why and what did not. And THEY will hold each other accountable. I believe this is Andrew's team and he WILL get it all figured out. It may be somewhat labored in comparison to what we want to see but it should be productive.

    And if a Mann or Glover takes the offense to another level and the team embraces that kind of play then Andrew will adjust or else his playing time will be limited.

    This team feels like a classic case of "paralysis by analysis" and time to stop doing the same things and expect a different outcome.
     
  8. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Very informative and forthright press conference. I love this forum, but it’s been frustrating to hear people say ... “we need to scrap the offense” ... seemingly unaware we had already done so.
    I’ve said it endless times on here... we have transitioned to a very heavy multi-set/multi-look offense. I do think this fits the personnel better... especially Andrew and Kerry.
    I also think it should flatten out the learning curve a bit for the freshman, though it could play less to the skills of those guys.
    It will be interesting to watch the progress.
     
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  9. toddrl

    toddrl GC Hall of Fame

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    White wants to play a slow pace, that's clear by now. End of story. Recruitied a bunch of gazelles and making them play a snail game. As for his "analytics" on a faster pace that's BS. We haven't run near enough for those stats to be valid. More paralysis by analysis with metrics by White. He just has no feel for coaching O at all. Oh well.
     
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  10. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    I agree!

    I have to think something would be an indicator, but White suggested practices were sharp and crisp, but that the team basically folded under the lights.
    If this is really true, than I’m not sure I agree with scrapping the system. The scenario white describes would suggest the team can and should excel in the original offense, but has to overcome some immaturity and nerves. I don’t think a total reset of the offense would help this... and perhaps could exacerbate some of the issues.
    My guess is that white may be covering for a player or two... or more... who just don’t function well within the system. But I’m not sure why it would take so long to recognize this.
    It is a bit odd, but we saw a similar though less pronounced transition last year.
    One fair critique of White is the heavy preseason focus on defense. I think the freedom of his offense maybe gives the impression that it will be learned thru playing, but that may have blinded him to the deficiencies this season, and now we are where we are..... starting over early in the year.
     
  11. diamondted13

    diamondted13 GC Hall of Fame

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    This. Absolutley spot on. I was just about to comment on what the sample size of those BS transition efficiency stats must be. He must be looking at practice stats. Because in real games, especially our worst games, they are almost nonexistent. Unless he defines transition differently than most.

    I'm not sure I want to read those comments, as it sounds like classic over-coaching and not being comfortable loosening the reigns and losing some control. A lot of coaches are just wired to micromanage.
     
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  12. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    I honestly do not think that is White’s personality nor style. I’ve said before, but I think he tends to tighten-up in crunch time.
    This season has faced an early crunch time, and it can be argued that White over-reacted and is maybe now over-coaching. I made the comment during Charleston... that I observed him calling a set play virtually every time down the court.

    I would also dispute the idea that White “wants to play slow”. For whatever reason, he has felt compelled to do so during his time here. I think it was sometimes dictated by personnel. This season suggests otherwise. But it makes absolutely zero sense for White to have spent 4+ months practicing and preparing to play more free-flowing basketball if didn’t want or intend to play that way.
    Something has again deterred White from playing the way he thought and planned... and to play how we have expected Florida to play since he arrived. But no one will convince me this is what he “wants”.
    Suffice to say, it would be a very, very, very odd ruse for White to intend/want to play slow, but pretend and prepare otherwise for the duration of the offseason.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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  13. diamondted13

    diamondted13 GC Hall of Fame

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    It seems like we agree on more than you are willing to admit. I just think you are more bullish and optimistic about the process. I consider these things over-coaching and micromanaging. It seems like he was unwilling to suffer the growing pains of incorporating 6 newcomers into a faster, more free-flowing offense. Growing pains likely being more TO's, questionable shot-selection, and defensive breakdowns (by-products of playing fast).

    What he's basically done is scrap a lot of what he started the season with, knowing that the new stuff would also come with considerable growing pains. Growing pains in this case being stagnant, horrific, half-court offense. The difference in the growing pains for each is simply him having more control over the latter than with the former. Things like barking out set plays every time down the floor (I noticed the same thing in Charleston and it was off-putting, to say the least).

    If he is scrapping a lot to protect a certain player (Nembhard), it is coming at the expense of the majority of the roster (which long-term would be much better suited
    to the faster, free-flowing style). Unlike some posters, I'm willing to live with whatever style of play delivers the most success to the program (even if it's less entertaining). But he is totally recruiting the wrong players if this is what he is more comfortable doing. Because it sure seems his instincts to micromanage are overtaking his preference for a certain style of play.
     
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  14. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Why would I be unwilling to admit where we agree?
    I concur on a lot of what you wrote above!
    The irony ... at least as it relates to this board... however, is that your post above demands patience and acceptance of some real early season struggles.
    We have had far more people demand we “scrap the offense”, than ones willing to endure.
    I’d also suggest that we saw even more stagnation BEFORE we scrapped the early offense. See: FSU.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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  15. diamondted13

    diamondted13 GC Hall of Fame

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    I'd rather watch 20+ TO's a night if it means trying to get in transition or initiating offense early in the possession. I'd also prefer scoring 70+ in losses than between 50-60.

    I've tried to block the fsu game from memory, but even watching live in the arena all I remember muttering was "what the hell are we trying to do" on repeat. Very few attempts to push the ball and our response to their 3/4 press was AN walking it up and barely crossing halfcourt line w/in 10 sec. I've already admitted leaving the building w/ 13+ min left due to the trauma.

    It just seems since the opening tip vs. UNF that this team has lacked any real identity or purpose on the offensive end. We can chalk it up to a lot of new faces, youth, AN's absence over the off-season, etc. but there is simply no excuse for it looking as bad and disjointed as it has through the first 1/4 of the season, even against inferior teams. Several games should have at least called for a scrapping of the game plan at halftime. Things like trying to full-court press so as to speed up the other team, force TO's and create transition opportunities (especially against lesser teams).

    But again, that would mean CMW having to be more of an observer and living with the results. I'm convinced that a frenetic, chaotic style of game would have him on the brink of Urban Meyer 2009-level physical distress. Let's face it, expectations at a mid-major program w/ little history for a young coach are almost nil. He has clearly felt the pressure at a major program, not to mention replacing a legend on top of that. It has changed him. He's not the same guy he was 5 years ago and it's understandable.
     
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  16. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Some good points.

    And felt the same at FSU game.

    I was surprised to read @Efawcett7 article and the number of times we have run early offense. It was more than I expected.

    But i agree...the times we don’t run early offense, we seem to defer to slow, very late offense.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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  17. dylan383

    dylan383 Premium Member

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    I think we will look on Mike White in a much more positive light. Maybe even better than other coaches. I know mike hasn’t won a championship but I think that will come w patience.
     
  18. Efawcett7

    Efawcett7 Eric Fawcett VIP Member GC Columnist

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    It is surprising how many times the Gators have gotten shots in early offense, it's definitely a lot more than I would have first expected as well as I'm sure most people reading expected. I think when Florida does get an early shot they move so slowly that those possessions just resonate more.
     
  19. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 VIP Member

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    I will look on White in a more positive light if he turns this around and gets the most out of his personnel. Until that happens the jury is still out on his ability to run a high-powered, or even good, offense.
     
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  20. dylan383

    dylan383 Premium Member

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    Well it does need to happen next month. I’m trusting it will. What is going on now on practices is key.