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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, they quickly regretted that play.
     
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  2. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    True, (well Tannenburg and the Marusian Lakes didn't exactly help the Czars cause) in fact in an odd historical ironic twist, Germany was intregal to Lenins return from exile and in fact a German train took him back to Russia.
     
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  3. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    And that train was loaded with cash to fund the revolution.

    As uftaipai said, German quickly regretted the widespread birth of Communism which they short-sightedly facilitated.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
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  4. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    Besides it not being a Leo, it's also not that relevant if it is. I'm sure some of them will be lost during this war, even the Kurds busted a few Turkish Leos, so I don't really see how it even matters if some get blown up.

    I'm just waiting to see where Ukraine will make their breakthroughs, which they surely will somewhere, and how the Russian counterattack will be like.
     
  5. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    The tie ins between Germany and Russia has certainly been interesting since Germany was formed, that's for sure.

    Incredible history, irony, friendship, betrayal, warfare at arguably an intensity seldom experienced in human history.

    And as an American from abroad with absolutely no travel experience in either country, I'm endlessly fascinated by both.
     
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  6. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Completely agree. And clearly that comparison must include consideration of Ukrainian borders pre 2014.

    My assumption is the play will be for Putin to play every card he has except (I hope) the Dr. STRANGEGLOVE solution.

    The West, for its part, will probably pressure Ukraine to resolve the conflict and cede some captured territory aquired by Russia.

    The crown jewel of course is Crimea. Whomever winds up with Crimea will have a pretty good argument for "We Won".
     
  7. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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  8. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    You're very fixated on "winning", but neither side is winning. In the last few months, Russia has a slight edge in territory gain after overrunning Bakhmut, but even that is so small and incremental, it's nothing to boast about. This is a stalemate. Nobody is winning anything.
     
  9. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Nobody is winning (i.e. at the moment) or nobody is going to win? Which are you asserting, specifically?

    As far as being “fixated on winning” … uh, yeah, guilty … it’s war. Being fixated on winning wars is what I get paid for. If you want to read thoughts by someone fixated on losing wars but how to act like you won anyway, it wasn’t winnable, or it didn’t matter, read anything that Jake Sullivan writes.
     
  10. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    upload_2023-6-6_20-28-23.jpeg
     
  11. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    The Germans aren't stupid, they know who did it. The blowback probably won't happen until years from now, when the German industries are on their deathbed and ultra-nationalists rise to power and start pointing fingers.
     
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  12. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    Same rationale war hawks used to stay in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm not fixated on "winning" or "losing" a war that shouldn't be ours to begin with. We don't need Ukraine. It might be a nice showpiece and an extra layer of insurance, but we don't need them. As for Ukraine and Russia, I don't think either side is going to win anything more of significance on the battlefield before this is over. Perhaps a net win geopolitically for Russia, as they could add valuable seized territory and a potential permanent land bridge to Crimea, which gives them almost total dominance over the Black Sea. I'm surprised you see it otherwise, considering what you said about Jake Sullivan. If you want someone who wages purposeless war, he's your guy.
     
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  13. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    It is not in the interests of the US to have Russia gain from this act of aggression.
     
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  14. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    You could have used that justification for every war we've ever been in that blew up in our faces. It's not in the interests of the US to have a lot of things that go on in the world happen, but they do and we will be fine.
     
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  15. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Wheat prices jumped on the news.

    Corn prices are spiking due to hot dry May in the midwest

    Food inflation on the horizon
     
  16. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    Depends on who defines what the interests are. Russia has been somewhat of a problem for a while, and getting worse. They are putting pressure on Eastern Europe. They are spreading an authoritarian style of populism and trying to undermine democracy. They are even trying to meddle and influence US elections. Mitt Romney said Russia is a major geopolitical problem in 2012 and Obama (and me) laughed at him for saying it. But he was right. It’s only gotten worse.

    This isn’t a fight we started, but given it’s there, it is in our interests to back Ukraine. It isn’t about Ukraine. It is about protection of Eastern Europe and reversing the threat of authoritarian populism. Also, sending a signal to China and others who may have their sights set on hostile acquisitions.

    Now I fully understand you will disagree. As a Trump fan, you are not particularly concerned about loss of democracy or authoritarian populism, because you view those as preferable to having to live with democratically enacted rules made by your political opponents.
     
  17. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    10 years ago you laughed at Romney and now you want to educate me on the subject?
     
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  18. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Jake Sullivan is a clown who should have been fired in early 2022 and replaced with a National Security Advisor who understands something about national security. I have stated that on here many times. The President makes a larger political error in sticking by this guy so as not to admit he was a poor choice, than to cut bait and get a serious war-time consigliere.
     
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  19. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't disagree with you there and it's one of the many reasons I have low levels of confidence about what we're doing in Ukraine.