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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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  2. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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  3. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Clarifying my “like” above: I am happy to hear about the long-range rocket artillery.

    Emotionally, I agree with the language about our embassy. Realistically, embassies of non-combatant nations get hit during wartime (let’s not forget that we hit the PRC embassy in Belgrade during our questionable war against Serbia). If Russia “accidentally” hits our embassy and it’s not terribly obvious that it was intentional, then, yes, I agree it is a significant escalation. But I think intentionally attacking their embassy would be an even greater escalation on our part. In that case, I would recommend that we formally cut off diplomatic relations with Russia and evacuate their embassy (maybe giving the real estate to Ukraine as added GFYS). This would have the supplemental benefit of giving the Biden Administration a face-saving out of this ridiculous situation where Russia “negotiates on our behalf” with Iran and eliminating that piece of leverage.
     
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  4. Swamplizard

    Swamplizard VIP Member

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  5. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    All the more reason they should be more scared of their nuclear threats than we should be.
     
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  6. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    I had to watch a few times to fully grasp it - absolutely bizarre.
     
  7. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    Granted its twitter. But hopefully HiMARs will have an impact. With the logistical challenges for resupply they won’t have a lot of missiles to launch. Go after ammo or fuel storage sites?


     
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  8. ATLGATORFAN

    ATLGATORFAN Premium Member

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    thanks for sharing. WTF. Amazing footage
     
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  9. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    While Macron now being a lame-duck and Sholz's stunning defeat in his base region are big news, the Bulgaria development is underreported but also carries high importance. They're one of the staunchest supporters of Ukraine in Europe, but the replacement for their PM and Harvard grad Petkov after the confidence vote is their president Radev, who is staunchly pro-Russian. He will need to call new elections, and if his faction manages retain power there's a real risk that Bulgaria will once again take a pro-Russian stance.

    Also important is that the narrative outside of the West and its allies is quite different. Sanctions do not reduce global resources demand. While in the west we only need to tighten our belts to suffer through the sanctions, in the global south many will die. They will find a way to obtain the goods they need, their lives literally depend on it. This both renders the sanctions ineffective as well as turn global opinion outside of our cocoon against us.

    Why the west risks condemning Ukraine to slow strangulation

    "Yet in Whitehall they fear the “F word” – fatigue – and worry that the west with its TikTok-attention span and bias towards instant gratification does not have the resolve for the years-long sacrifice required to defeat Russia, or even stem the military tide in the villages of eastern Ukraine."
    ...
    "Western leaders are already feeling the political heat. Joe Biden stares at defeat in the November midterms, and Donald Trump is now the bookies’ favourite to win the White House in 2024. Emmanuel Macron appears paralysed after losing his parliamentary majority and seeing the French electorate hand nearly 90 seats to the “Putin-ist” Marine Le Pen. Germany’s chancellor, Olaf Scholz, has already lost elections in two states and struggles to convince that his turning point on defence represents a change of German mindset.

    In Italy, the prime minister, Mario Draghi, one of the steadiest European voices on Ukraine, is under pressure over arm sales to Kyiv and has seen his foreign minister, Luigi di Maio, quit the Five Star Movement to form another parliamentary group to back him. In the UK, Boris Johnson has survived a no-confidence vote within the Tory party but now seems to see populist domestic dividing lines, not Ukraine, as his route to salvation. The socialist-led government in Spain, which host hosts next week’s Nato summit, has just seen itself obliterated in provincial elections in Andalusia – previously the bastion of socialism and where 20% of Spanish voters reside.

    Bulgaria’s six-month-old governing coalition, which had been the leading anti-Russian government in the Balkans, fell in a confidence vote on Wednesday, a situation that could lead to a new Russian ally in the EU."

    read the rest at the link provided
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2022
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  10. gogator7444

    gogator7444 GC Hall of Fame

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  11. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Ukraine should claim that they have developed new technology that re-directs Russian missiles to "return to sender". Russian troops will be very reluctant to send up any more missiles if they think there is a chance that they will be blown to bits by their own missile.
     
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  12. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas Moderator

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    Thank you for the article. This has been my point from the very beginning of sanctions against Russia. NATO and western allies are losing the battle of a coalesced world against Russia. NATO and western allies are taking the blame for global shortages and from the perception of other nations that are heavily dependent on global trade of food and oil rightly so.

    Then there is the issue of supplying Ukraine with weapons that do nothing more than offer minimal life support which causes the war and shortages to drag on. This is nothing more than torture and assured death of Ukraine by a thousand cuts. This policy only serves to extend the malaise of global shortages.

    It is plain that NATO and western allies are not going to put boots on the ground much less start a war with Russia although that may change. Jumping from the frying pan into the fire will make matters far worse than they currently are. European nations know they will suffer the most from such a war.

    It is clear the world is angry with the US and western allies at this point. Even if this war is to end today the animosity toward the US and western allies will be a thorn in our sides for decades to come.
     
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  13. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Intentionally attacking the U.S. embassy would give the U.S. clear justification to respond militarily, if Biden has enough courage. Maybe we respond with a one-night bombing run on Russian targets in Ukraine, and see how Putin responds to that. The U.S. could make it clear through diplomatic channels that this would happen ahead of time, so Putin does not think that we are looking to invade Ukraine and drive Russia out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2022
  14. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas Moderator

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  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia has been working since 2014 to deny Ukraine's access to ammunition from eastern European suppliers, including threatening suppliers and blowing up depots. During this war, Russia has been firing 10 shots for every shot fired by Ukraine.

    Putin’s Decade-Long Secret Sabotage Scheme Revealed

     
  16. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Agree, but no I don’t think the President would do that. We seem to be doing everything we can to get out of Russia’s way and not give them an excuse to attack us. In such circumstances, we might even apologize for hitting their expensive missiles with our embassy and promising to try harder in the future to move.
     
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  17. dingyibvs

    dingyibvs Premium Member

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    This also serves to illustrate that wars are risky and unpredictable. Both Russia and the West had overly optimistic goals in the beginning but instead found themselves plunging head first into a quagmire that's difficult to extricate themselves from.

    Ultimately IMO the decider will be will, and since it means more to Russia than to the West, I see Russia achieving a pyrrhic victory that leaves both of us weaker. The true victor would then be China, who'd have more secure energy supplies from Russia and a weakened and fractured West who're less able and willing to oppose their rise. They've been diplomatically aggressive but making few moves, and their strategic patience is paying off handsomely as the old powers are preoccupied with tearing themselves down with ill-conceived foreign adventures.
     
  18. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia defaults on its debt on Sunday night. The s#!t hits the fan on Monday morning.

    Russia is days away from a historic debt default as a $100 million payment comes due with Moscow cut off from the global financial system

     
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  19. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Germany's economy is apparently being pushed to the breaking point.

    Putin Is Pushing Germany’s Economy to the Breaking Point

     
  20. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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