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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    I have to ask, why do you come to this board and just post information that is just absolutely false? Is it just to get a reaction out of other posters? Do you think it is funny?
     
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  2. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    There is a very legitimate argument for this decision. Just because you do not like the current POTUS or SecDef, do not let that impact your thinking on this policy decision.
     
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  3. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    Generally I get a sense of the motivation for politicians. But not on this, why does Trump kowtow so to Putin? Maybe it’s Trump cutting his loses early because he knows Putin won’t listen - a bit of fear on trumps part? Or is it all too complex and messy for trump to make a real commitment?

    after trumps call with Putin Russia said this:
    “Ushakov said Putin also congratulated Trump ahead of U.S. Independence Day on July 4. “We noted that Russia played a role in the founding of the American state, including during the War of Independence..”

    Imagine if that was macron & France (which they did help us in rev war) Trump would have called it out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2025 at 11:00 AM
  4. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Go ahead, grind your teeth …

     
  5. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    That of course is an issue that must be considered , but hegseth in his brief history had arbitrarily stopped shipments before. He might just be using this as cover.
    There are other quotes like below from both sides who are involved with defense.

    Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas) is pressing the Trump administration to rescind its pause on sending weapons to Ukraine in its war with Russia.

    Senior U.S. military officials have concluded that providing these critical weapons to Ukraine will not endanger U.S. readiness, so I urge the administration to quickly get the pipeline back up and running,” McCaul, who previously served as chair of the House Armed Services Committee, wrote Friday in a post on the social platform X.

    “Pentagon officials halting weapons only weakens President Trump’s noble attempts at peace,” he added.”




    Michael McCaul presses Pentagon to unfreeze weapons shipments to Ukraine
     
  6. Orange_and_Bluke

    Orange_and_Bluke Premium Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  7. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    Just realize that the definition of "readiness" is often nebulous. It can change depending on which scenario the DoD is planning for and what assumptions are built into that.
     
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  8. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Apparently, while Russia was sending a massive drone attack against Ukrainian civilians, Ukraine was busy with its own drone attack against a Russian air base. Supposedly, a glide bomb depot was hit, possible along with several aircraft.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-u...mp-zelenskyy-d403d0807e35a64f530d587dbd218aa5

     
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  9. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Missiles and drones negotiating with far-right ultra-nationalist Zelensky regime …

     
  10. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    I'm sure it was all planned to avoid civilian causalities.
     
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  11. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I understand and agree with that completely. However, this is an actual war going on against an actual enemy of the U.S. So I would rather err on the side of keeping Ukraine supplied than risk seeing Ukraine fail due to short-sightedness. If we were that worried about the more serious scenarios with other countries materializing, we should crank up our defense production to supply both ourselves and Ukraine. Trump seems unable to recognize the need to stop Russia in its invasion of Ukraine. He's a more arrogant and less intelligent version of Neville Chamberlain, with his first response being to deny that there's a problem with the situation.

    The Ukraine War could easily be the canary in the coal mine for World War III, just like Poland was in WWII. Europe and the U.S. did not take Germany seriously enough at that time, partly because they were dealing with the Great Depression. We have no such excuse. Telling our grandchildren that the after-effects of WWIII are not our fault because we elected a mentally disabled president who wanted to save a few dollars at the cost of millions of lives is not going to go over well.
     
  12. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    Maybe the Defense Production Act should be used to build the stockpiles of some of these weapons back up?
     
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  13. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Spoken like a true supporter of Vladimir Putin. "Ultra-nationalist" meaning resistance by Ukraine to being completely subsumed into Russia, losing it's identity as an independent country and returning to it's status under the Soviet Union or the Czarist Russian Empire.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2025 at 11:31 AM
  14. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Fortunately, European countries are taking the threat of Russia seriously. Total aid to Ukraine from other NATO countries is now exceeding US aid. Unfortunately the other countries do not have weapons with the capability of some American systems, the Patriot coming immediately to mind.
    Europe's overall Ukraine aid outpaces US by $26 billion, report says
     
  15. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Absolutely. And immediately. Still, there is some delta between the flash and the bang of ordering the weapons into existence and their physical manifestation. To stay true to Colby’s strategy, we have to hold on to the weapons we need to fight China and not give them away, hoping we won’t need them, such as Patriots. That part makes sense to me. Where I’m less clear is on the weapons we don’t need to fight China, such as 155mm artillery shells. There should be no interruption in supply of weapons that are mostly for land component combat.
     
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  16. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    The issue is that it is too late to crank up defense production if you think the CCP is going after Taiwan in 2027. It is something that the Biden Admin should have done back mid-2023. We have what we have right now in our current stocks and what we can produce in the next 18 months. Do you want to lose a war with China because we ran out of long range fires after two or three months?

    Ukraine is producing their own cruise missiles now. The only thing they could really only get from us are the GLMRs and Patriots. If the Israelis are willing to sell them some air defense capabilities, it would make up for the Patriots.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2025 at 11:54 AM
  17. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    They could buy the weapon systems from the US and donate them to Ukraine, assuming there is an inventory in the US that they could purchase.
     
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  18. CaptUSMCNole

    CaptUSMCNole Premium Member

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    I think the Czechs stepped up to give everyone a year off to build their stocks back up.