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Wake Forest assistant punches a guy who dies from fall

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by oragator1, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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    I was reading about this.
    Unreal.
    You said it perfectly... sad story for all involved.
     
  2. gatorbogey

    gatorbogey Premium Member

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    Curious - why get out of the car, punch a guy for knocking on your window inquiring if he was his Uber driver?! Something more to the story?
     
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  3. SeabudGator

    SeabudGator GC Legend

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    I know of several cases where this has happened including one a relative defended the accused "murderer" - 1 punch, guy drops and dies. Charge of involuntary manslaughter.

    It is incredibly sad, but unless you have an imminent fear for your life, you need to avoid physical conflict (and if there is imminent fear you can go from fists to a gun immediately. Indeed, you are legally better off in courts shooting someone and claiming imminent fear than punching them and claiming self defense if they die. Not saying that is good, but it is true).

    As a long time martial arts practioner, the adage goes: White belt walks down the street, sees a tough guy, gets in a fight and is beat up. Brown belt walks down the street, sees a tough guy, gets in a fight and beats the guy up (and maybe gets charged with murder). Black belt walks down the street, sees a tough guy and crosses the street.
     
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  4. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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    The story I read indicated a bit more. Per that story, the victim was drunk and banging on multiple cars. When he was approached by someone, he punched that person in the face. Shortly after, the Wake coach arrived. Who knows what he encountered, but I suspect it was something more than this guy kindly tapping his window.
     
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  5. bgator85

    bgator85 Premium Member

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    And I can't imagine this coach helped his case by fleeing the scene
     
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  6. ThePlayer

    ThePlayer VIP Member

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    Philadelphia breeds some nasty folks.
     
  7. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Read the same thing that AKA mentions. The Floridian was being untoward.
    It is unfortunate. One life lost, another's future in great jeopardy.
    Bummer
     
  8. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    It's going to be a tough sell for the coach to spin this into anything other than "I was mad the dude was beating on my car, and I wanted to let him have it." Not too long ago, that probably wouldn't have been a big deal, but it seems like people are less likely to be able to defend their property in this way. Some questions I have:

    - what was the BAC of the guy who died?
    - what was the extent of damaged levied to the coach's vehicle...to other vehicles?
    - did anybody witness the encounter or is this a case of his word vs. whatever the evidence can piece together that may present a different story?
    - in this day and age, why get out of your car? Presumably you are right that the (perceived) crazy shouldn't be beating on your car, but is it a justifiable move to get out to let him have it? You're a college basketball coach, don't you make enough money to realize that the damage done to the vehicle is peanuts compared to the potential damage to your reputation for this altercation? (even if you are found not guilty)

    Also, leaving the scene is a bad move, I would be surprised if he doesn't get dinged for that. How do we know the coach was not drinking (a little liquid courage to justify a beat down for someone messing with your car, perhaps?).

    Bare in mind, I'm speculating, but I find the coach in an awfully tough position to defend here. And I'm not saying the dude who died did nothing wrong, we know nothing for certain about how he was acting. But the more aggressive he was acting, the more dumb it is to get out for a confrontation. A few years back, I would have thought, you play with fire (banging on people's cars) you might get burned (knocked out or beat up or whatever). But today, I don't think people see it that way any more. There's more of an obligation to refrain from administering a beating to somebody for anything less than a genuine threat on your life.

    If an athlete were in this situation, would Wake Forest wait before suspending the athlete from team activities? If this happened at FLORIDA, I have a hard time believing the coach wouldn't be immediately suspended pending further investigation. Just an observation.

    No matter what, that coach is going to have a heavy burden to have to live with knowing that he killed a man over something, seemingly, so petty in the grand scheme of things.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
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  9. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    Wake Forest assistant basketball coach charged in N.Y. tourist's death pleads not guilty in hearing

    Finding that person and getting him to testify would probably go a long way in favor of the coach.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
  10. ThePlayer

    ThePlayer VIP Member

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    "No matter what, that coach is going to have a heavy burden to have to live with knowing
    that he killed a man over something, seemingly, so petty in the grand scheme of things."

    What makes you sure this animal even cares?
    He cares he got caught....that's for sure.
     
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  11. ArtVandelay

    ArtVandelay GC Hall of Fame

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    Does it still justify him dying because you punched him in the face because he punched someone else in the face?

    Still a pretty big leap in my opinion. I think you said it well in your previous post. Certainly not innocent, but didn't deserve to die. Unfortunate all around.

    Reminds me of a case that was in my backyard.

    69-year-old Gets 6 Months For Throwing Fatal Punch

    He cut a deal to avoid a lengthy sentence. Can this coach do that and still coach when he gets out?
     
  12. cincinnatigator

    cincinnatigator Premium Member

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    Him pleading not guilty doesn’t make me feel that sorry for him now honestly. What he did was the equivalent of a hit and run, and if I’m the victim’s family I’d be fuming at his not guilty plea. Owning up to it would’ve looked a lot better to a jury and would’ve given everyone more sympathy for him. I don’t think any jury will find him not guilty considering the facts, but stranger things have happened. Whether he’s found guilty or not, he should never be able to coach at a D1 program. Violence should be the last resort. The guy was clearly drunk but he doesn’t look threatening in the least. Call the cops, get him arrested for public intoxication, note any damages he did to your vehicle, and that’s that. His ego got in the way of reason.
     
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  13. wci347

    wci347 GC Hall of Fame

    The mere fact that Queens County, which is known as death valley by defense attorneys here in NY because of the conservative jury pool, only charged him with assault, tells me that there are major extenuating circumstances.
     
  14. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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    I certainly understand your disgust.
    But as I look at this, I can’t help but think this could have happened to me... and probably many others.
    I’ve been in fights.. and thus could have been killed, or tragically and unintentionally killed someone else. A person being knocked unconscious while standing can yield devastating results.
    I feel sad for all involved.
    I can’t imagine the coach had any intention to inflict such damage, let alone death.
    I can’t be overly judgmental regarding something I have done simply because the outcome was tragically different.
    That said... my opinion is subject to change as details are learned.
    But right now the story is that a drunk man was banging on vehicles. He punched out some guy who confronted him. The coach somehow happened upon this scene and foolishly (though rather inderstanbly) left his car. His punch felled the man ... causing him to hit his head and die.

    Just awful.
     
  15. cincinnatigator

    cincinnatigator Premium Member

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    The case remains under review. He's ordered to return to court Oct 2.
     
  16. cincinnatigator

    cincinnatigator Premium Member

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    Every Saturday I play tennis at this park with a basketball court next to it. There's usually a game going on and I always hear at least 1 ugly exchange of words followed by people being restrained. Definitely a cultural thing that I'll never understand. If you're from the streets and someone disrespects you, you can't back down. That's the rule, and it won't change any time soon. Little do these guys know how dangerous bare-knuckle fighting is on concrete. If you want to fight, just move it to the grass. I'd advise against ever throwing a punch on concrete unless you're truly fearing for your life.
     
  17. ThePlayer

    ThePlayer VIP Member

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    "....any intention to inflict such damage, let alone death."

    The parents of the deceased man were on a few talk shows this week.
    Jones delivered such a powerful blow Sandor was unrecognizable to them.
    Coroner reports described their son's face as if a sledge hammer had hit it.
    And this 'role model' coach failed to care enough if the victim even survived.
     
  18. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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    Again- we don’t know the details. At least I don’t. Were others present? Did he punch the man and leave him with others or left alone and unconscious. The latter would obviously be far more damning.
    Was it one punch or repeated punches after the man was unconscious?
    Did he get out and attack, or did the victim act or threaten to be violent? It has been reported he punched another person in the face who had approached.
    We will learn more details, I am sure.
    But until then, this seems like a horrible, yet perhaps... unintended... tragedy.
     
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  19. ArtVandelay

    ArtVandelay GC Hall of Fame

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    I play a lot of pick up basketball and this is half true where I play. Everyone talks a lot until it's time to do something, but it is in the back of my mind that someone might go to a car and get a weapon. Lately I have been playing at LA Fitness and there is this one guy that mouths off. He is terrible, but he looks the part so he wants to look tough, especially vs a white cracker/fat/expletive for gay person as he often calls me. I stand there and laugh at him because I know he won't take a swing. I would have him arrested on the spot with 30+ witnesses. I had to do that once before. It was during Phi Hoops on the Broward courts. Got sucker punched by a guy that shouldn't have even been allowed on campus. The lovely ladies of A E Phi wanted me to continue playing and wouldn't kick they out s we left and I went right across the street to the police and had him taken away in cuffs.

    It's definitely a cultural thing and I can tell you that black players are a lot more comfortable mouthing off to white players, even though they do a fair share of both. There are plenty of idiot white players doing the same as well. I am only telling you what I see when I play. I have played pick up in a lot of different places and it is possible to play without conflict.

    Anyways, I think this is my longest post ever but I wanted to shed some light since I have a good deal of experience with this.

    The times where punching someone in the face is defend-able (outside of boxing and MMA) are very very very small. I actually have a no punching in the face policy. AKA always tells me"you have a lot of dumb policies, but that is a good one." This is exactly why I have it.
     
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