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Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by missourigator, Jul 20, 2021.

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  1. WC53

    WC53 GC Hall of Fame

    Oct 17, 2015
    Old City
    NFL news. If a game is canceled due to covid, the team responsible forfeits….. big money

    Will the same come to SEC play?
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 19, 2007
    Considering that there are LOTS of reports of ppl getting infected AFTER being fully vaccinated, this is stupid because its inevitable to happen.
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  3. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    Aug 26, 2008
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  4. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    Aug 26, 2008
  5. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 19, 2007
    Yup, that and the hysteria of the anti-vaxxer's (and I'm talking about the childhood variety rather than Covid lest this quarantine this thread to too-hot! ;))
  6. ETGator1

    ETGator1 GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 3, 2007
    In a word, yes. It has already been announced by the SEC that there will be no make up games, only forfeits. If the teams gets to 85%, there will be no testing. However, if 85% can be achieved, there is no reason why 100% can't be achieved.
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  7. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus VIP Member

    Sep 18, 2015
    I agree w you about weighing the risks vs benefits individually and general resistance to nanny state intervention in my life, but I’ll add a couple of extra considerations to what you’ve already said.

    The comparison to smallpox and polio is a bit apples to oranges. Smallpox and polio had higher case fatality rates (30% and 5% respectively) than Covid (2.2%) AND there were no therapeutic interventions available if you caught them. That’s not the case w Covid. There are (very) effective treatments, and at least two of the treatments are effective in prophylaxis.

    You rightly mention that nobody knows the long term potential adverse outcomes of these mRNA therapies. They were “authorized” (not “approved”) for use under an Emergency Use Authorization, which is reserved for experimental treatments and which shield the manufacturers from liability. Moderna’s phase 1 trial lasted 53 days. Everyone who’s gotten Moderna’s vaccination is part of their phase 2 trial. Incidentally, Moderna has been working on mRNA therapies for over a decade, none of which ever received FDA approval.

    The reason I bring this up ties back to “requiring” or making it “mandatory” for anyone to get vaccinated - including football players.

    The Nuremberg Code, to which the US is a signatory, states that any person who involved in taking an experimental medication (which is how these vaccines are classified) “be able to exercise the power of free choice, without any element of force, duress, over-reaching, or other form of constraint or coercion.”

    I’ll leave it up to everyone thinking this through to determine whether or not requiring experimental Covid vaccination to play football falls under “coercion”, “over-reaching”, etc. I have my point of view, but don’t want to send this to Too Hot, because in all sincerity, is is an important reality of the upcoming season for fans and players, and worth discussing. I intentionally didn’t go any details on treatments and prophylaxis for the same reason. The fact that they exist for Covid and didn’t for smallpox or polio is the only additional point I wanted to make.
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  8. Skink

    Skink GC Hall of Fame

    Excellent post - thanks!
    • Agree Agree x 5
  9. manigordo

    manigordo GC Hall of Fame

    Nicely written post. The responses are simply that, in America, the responsibility to the common good, given the best information, outweighs the rights of the individual. The debate, is correctly, that. Secondly, while one may argue that one not be forced to take the vaccine, that person is subject to the rights of other groups and individuals who choose events that only vaccinated people may attend. Rights are not exclusive to non-vaccinated people. By your definition, big govt in Florida is taking away rights. Laws that don't allow people to take vaccine only cruises by saying companies and businesses may not enforce safety rules. That is craziness. The balance of rights is what is at stake....In this country, your right to swing your arm ends before it hits my face. Balancing rights is not a one sided equation.
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  10. 4everaGator

    4everaGator GC Hall of Fame

    Aug 3, 2010
    Central Florida
    As usual, spot on! I am not going to comment since I generally have an aversion to locked threads. But I will say that not all things called vaccines are one and the same, but I see that Nostradamus illustrated this quite exquisitely!
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  11. missourigator

    missourigator GC Legend

    Apr 13, 2007
    Gee, all I wanted to know is if we were among the ones who had 80%
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  12. spike718

    spike718 GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 11, 2007
    The answer is no we are not one of those teams at this time
  13. easycoastgator

    easycoastgator All American

    Dec 26, 2018
    I thought masks protect others not the wearer
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Agator88

    Agator88 GC Legend

    Oct 7, 2014
    Man, that was well said. I would have given it a thumbs up, or greatest post ever, but I just felt like it needed more love.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. KendallGator922

    KendallGator922 GC Hall of Fame

    Mar 27, 2015
    My understanding is that the vaccine does not prevent you from getting Covid, but it makes the symptoms and severity very minor possibly compared to say the flu at worst. The issue at hand is the vaccinated catching it with minor possible consequences and passing it onto the unvaccinated with potential serious consequences.

    We have always allowed players to play with the flu (if they are able). If Covid among the vaccinated is less than the flu, why should they not be allowed to play?

    Last football season the vaccine was not readily available. I do not think you should force anybody to take the shot, but at this point it is now a decision and not based on availability. These kids take their lives in their hands when they step on the field, but it is their choice. The vaccine was not their choice last year, but it is this year. If you choose not to take the vaccine, it is the same as choosing to lead with the crown of your helmet. I am 100% for protecting these kids. Unfortunately any sport has its assumed risks to both injury and life. A 14 year old lost his life in a horrible motorcycle crash the other day while racing.
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
  16. Bushmaster

    Bushmaster GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 9, 2007
    I just read up a little on the vaccine and am deciding on whether or not to get it. Based on my reading, the vaccine does not prevent you from getting COVID as there have been a lot of people vaccinated with positive tests. It is believed that those with the vaccine can still spread COVID, which is why the recommendation is to still wear a mask even though that is not required in lots of places.

    Since the vaccine has only been given out for about 5-6 months, I am curious as to how the statistics and sample size available can lead to a conclusion on any of this. For example, if the vaccine lessens symptoms (I believe this), is someone who is vaccinated with COVID but doesn't feel sick, included in the positive number? How would you know if they didn't present symptoms and didn't get tested? Less severe symptoms is a good thing here.

    The real disappointing thing about all of this is finding information that isn't slanted one way or the other. The anti vaccine and pro vaccine sides are slowly aligning themselves politically into a my team versus your team mentality proving once again there is no topic that won't turn political. Example #1 why I don't visit a part of this board any longer.

    My question for pro vaccine people is if the vaccine protects you, why do you care if someone chooses differently?

    My question for anti vaccine people is why did you take other vaccine shots, flu shots, etc?

    @Nostradamus , thank you for the write up.
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  17. Skink

    Skink GC Hall of Fame

    I feel strongly both ways
  18. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 19, 2007
    Wrong Forum, my friend. You'll be sure to get plenty of strong (but most likely wrong) opinions when you take this over to Too Hot.
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  19. Bushmaster

    Bushmaster GC Hall of Fame

    Apr 9, 2007
    I don't have a stance on it. I am genuinely interested in whether or not to get it.

    You are correct on strong opinions, and most likely wrong opinions, from Too Hot.

    I would be a lot more comfortable if this thing had more time in the studies. The Army was giving out Anthrax vaccines like candy at one time and most of us were thinking "how and when and how many have died from Anthrax??" to go to this much trouble. Vaccinations are not a new thing to me.
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  20. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

    Sep 5, 2010
    East Coast of FL
    Or you immunity to the mumps had waned over the years.
    I had a similar But opposite situation with Chicken pox, never had it as a kid (that we knew of) yet was tested and had positive titers. I had evidently had a subclinical case and didn't need the vaccine.
    • Informative Informative x 2
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