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UBI Experiment in Finland Fails

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by chemgator, May 6, 2020.

  1. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The final results are in: Finland's basic-income trial found people were happier, but weren't more likely to get jobs

    UBI makes you happier, but does nothing to inspire you to find a job or improve your job prospects.

     
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  2. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    That's some pretty biased framing. The argument against a UBI has always been that people will be content to live on the government dole and won't want to go find jobs. This study disproves that hypothesis:

    “The scheme did not have negative effects on employment,” said Anthony Painter, chief research and impact officer at the Royal Society for the encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce, a U.K. charity. “If anything, it was positive -- an important rebuke to those who think it would lead to more people being lazy.”​

    So here we have a program that makes the population happier and has no negative impact on employment or economic production. What a failure.
     
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  3. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Also keep in mind (from the article)
    Based on the experiment I don't think it's intellectually possible to draw a conclusion on the effect of UBI one way or the other.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  4. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    Just a heads up, anyone linking the article in the OP will get their post "held up for moderation" since it links a Y a h o o* article. So if it doesn't show up right away that is it.

    *trying not to get this post held up. lol
     
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  5. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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  6. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    The idea of basic income has gained renewed interest during the coronavirus pandemic. Millions of jobless people are relying on social safety nets that vary greatly from one country to the next. Spain, for example, is seeking to implement a basic income scheme to supplement the income of its poorest citizens.

    Three million people are expected to benefit under a program that's rolling out this month, Reuters reported.

    In the US, federal efforts have focused on aiding Americans after they lose jobs and their health insurance with it. That's in stark contrast to European nations like Denmark, which is subsidizing shuttered businesses to keep workers on payrolls.

    Anyone else feel like we're all guinea pigs amidst this crap?
     
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  7. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

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    Not really.
     
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  8. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Yeah, that is some petty incredible framing. It makes people happier but it failed because people didn't get more jobs, even though they also didn't get less jobs. I forget, is happy a bad thing?
     
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  9. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    We clearly have different ideas of what 'failure' means
     
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  10. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    The government did something that made people happier without harming them or anyone else, in some people's view, that's a massive failure
     
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  11. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    How are we supposed to keep score in happiness? If I can't say I won, how do I beat the other guy?
     
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  12. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Perhaps 'failure' was referring to the experiment failing to yield anything useful or conclusive, in which case I would concur to it being declared a failure.

    If failure refers to the UBI, id agree with you :eek:--the data doesnt seem to support that conclusion.

    Doesnt really support any conclusion frankly.

    Just a short term experiment that didnt result in any disaster, nor any great victory to boast.

    Though i guess some folks were pleased to get some free money. Holy shit! Who woulda figured that???
     
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  13. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    Wait, are you telling me no one was owned by this policy here? No wonder it failed! :)
     
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  14. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Nice. Succinct. To the point.

    Made me chuckle.

    FWIW, i was referring to covid and some of the programs we've implemented in response, not to the UBI in Finland, though i failed to even attempt to est a nexus.
     
  15. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    I'm not a UBI fanatic, but I don't remember anyone ever touting "people will be more likely to seek employment" as one of the benefits, so I don't know why that was the benchmark of any experiments success or failure.
     
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  16. spike718

    spike718 GC Hall of Fame

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    haven’t read the article yet but... I have been a super hard worker most of my life. Never once wanted UBI. However, seems to me an easy concept for most... give me something for free so I don’t have to work or work as hard. Makes sense to me that people may not want to work or work as hardy if they get paid anyway.

    I also thought the thread title said “UTI” vs “UBI” so threw me for a loop. Lol
     
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  17. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Well lets see...give some folks some money at regular intervals...like a payday, only they don't have to work for it, earn it, or do anything for it but spend it...

    ....and then spike the football baby, bc they're happy about that arrangement!

    Sure, why not...
     
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  18. 92gator

    92gator GC Hall of Fame

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    You're missing the point.

    The concerm with UBI is that if you give everyone the basics for free without them having to do anything for it, they wont be inclined to work at all.

    Harmless when your talking about a few hundred ppl. Out of a few million...

    Not so harmless when everyone is collecting, and enough decide not to be bothered with work at all, such that not enough gets made or done, to keep those basics affordable.

    So the big win here, is that they said see? Ppl receiving UBI still sought employment!
     
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  19. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    If that's your point, then the experiment kinda disproved it because it didn't make people less likely to work either.
     
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  20. swampbabe

    swampbabe GC Hall of Fame

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    UBI is also known as disability in West Virginia and Kentucky.
     
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