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Two foul philosophy?

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by twodaparty, Jan 30, 2021.

  1. twodaparty

    twodaparty GC Hall of Fame

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    Has Coach White actually said that it’s automatic a player sits if we he picks up his second foul in the first half of a game? I ask because people have said it as fact but I’m wondering if Coach White Himself has ever said that is his policy?

    I think it could have cost us the game because if I’m not mistaken (I was in the car listening on the radio and the wife kept distracting me) Mann picked up two fouls Very early in the first half and never came back until the second half. I felt we could have went into halftime with a nice lead and the second half could have been a more comfortable win not sweating it out until the last second.

    Look at Huggins and his decision to play Culver with two fouls in the first half (I believe) and then again when he picked up his third and then fourth fouls in the second half. If Huggins had the clear cut policy like Coach White seems to of sitting a guy who picks up his second foul in the first half we really would have blown the game open because he absolutely dominated and I can’t imagine them hanging in there without him on the floor.

    I wish Coach White would trust his players more (especially one of his really good players who leads the team in scoring) when it comes to not picking up a third foul.

    Good win but if we did lose I would feel the two foul rule was the only reason because we played better than them today foul trouble or not.
     
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  2. cincinnatigator

    cincinnatigator GC Legend

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    He’s never played a guy after his 2nd first half foul to my knowledge. It’s just a weird philosophy that doesn’t ever benefit this group. Duruji hasn’t been the same since he had 2 straight games that were interrupted by 2 early fouls. It takes players out of their flow and it’s really only meant to be a rule when you have a deep group with a similar skill set. I’m sorry but Question Glover is not deserving of minutes in crucial games unless he shows some massive improvement. And you can say we won the game so who cares but this philosophy just gives officials so much power to screw us if that’s their intention, which it was today clearly.
     
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  3. GatorLurker

    GatorLurker GC Hall of Fame

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    He did play Tre Mann a bit with two fouls late in a recent game. I think that it was one of those times where you sub in offense and then sub out for defense.
     
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  4. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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    This is a very popular philosophy among college coaches. I didn’t like it when Billy did it, and I am not a fan of it now with White.
    I think a kid should sit when he picks up a second, but the game needs to be managed with the possibility of the player returning if things get dire.
    Things arguably didn’t get dire today. In fact, Florida quickly went on an 8-0 run when Mann went out... only to give it back and trail by 5 at half. I didn’t think there was ever the panic moment in which we had to get those guys back in, so it worked out ok. But I don’t like it as an iron clad rule.
     
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  5. iam4uf

    iam4uf GC Hall of Fame

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    At least in 2018, only about 20% of players with 2 fouls were allowed to continue playing in the 1st half. Seems as if this has been a trend. They must have numbers to back it up. Maybe someone with a KenPom sub can get more stats.
    Introducing 2-Foul Participation | The kenpom.com blog
     
  6. GatorPlanet

    GatorPlanet GC Hall of Fame

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    I would say it's more than popular. It's the rule rather than the exception. Has been since at least the early 90s. In the old days, most guys played on with 2 first-half fouls.
     
  7. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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    Interesting.
    If that is his approach- I have no complaints, as it would show some flexibility.
     
  8. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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    yup.
     
  9. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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    I think the real component is somewhat immeasurable. The concern is that a kid will play differently if entering the second half with three fouls. Think about it... Tre picked up a cheap blocking foul early in the second half. Had we rolled the dice and lost...he could have had 4 fouls really, really early. Either that, or he would have had to play super conservatively.
     
  10. HallGator

    HallGator Senile Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    It's always a gamble and I would think most coaches go with what has the best odds of being the right call. No way these coaches have not only studied it in depth but so have their assistants.
     
  11. iam4uf

    iam4uf GC Hall of Fame

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    Here's a little more on his thinking in regard to why coaches do this.
    All points are not created equal | The kenpom.com blog
    upload_2021-1-30_18-16-7.png
     
  12. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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  13. twodaparty

    twodaparty GC Hall of Fame

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    Does anyone have any doubt though that if West Virginia had to sit Culver for as many minutes as did Mann that we wouldn’t have won comfortably? Their fans would be irate on their message boards at Huggins for sitting Culver and trailing us by 8-12 points (my estimation) pretty much the entire game. That’s how I would feel if we ended up losing by a non-blowout score and did the sit your guys with 2 fouls philosophy. I would be sitting there asking the question “what if?”
     
  14. the_alphagator1906

    the_alphagator1906 All American

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    Totally agree, Billy D did the same thing and it would drive me nuts. I get it for younger players but older guys you have to trust them.
     
  15. oneatatime

    oneatatime GC Hall of Fame

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    I think the announcers were mistaken about Culver having two fouls in the first half. When I looked at the halftime stats, it indicated he only had one.

    Most games, I don't mind sitting a guy after two fouls, but the situation often warrants another decision, depending principally on the score and what other options you have on the bench.

    Today, Mann, Lewis and Appleby all had 2 fouls in the first 16 minutes, leaving Glover, Locke and Samson being the primary ball handlers.

    Mann played just 23 minutes for the second straight game and only committed one foul in the second half today. I don't feel good about leaving arguably our best player out for 17 minutes in the first half and when things started to come apart late in the first half, I would have put Mann back in.
     
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  16. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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    Ok, but as is the case with every “what if”... this can go the other way.

    “What if” we rolled the dice, played Tre... and he picked up his third? And “what if” he picked up that same early blocking foul in the second half? He’d have had 4 fouls very, very early. . . and handcuffed for a long time late in the game.
    I am all for some flexibility, but Florida took its lead with Mann on the bench, and kept it close until halftime.
    If a previous poster is correct- White is open to playing a kid with two early fouls, if needed. It wasn’t needed today.
     
  17. Brewski

    Brewski Premium Member

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    We won; to me that’s what matters. Sitting the two foul guys didn’t get us an L, so I’m not sweating it.
     
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  18. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    I remember that as well.
     
  19. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    Like AKA said, Billy did it too, and most coaches do it.
    What cost us more today was appleby getting his second and having to play Glover.
     
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  20. SJB612

    SJB612 GC Hall of Fame

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    The problem is not trusting the player. The problem is the other team going at that player to try and draw the third foul and said player having to pay soft on D to avoid the third foul. Better to have another player in that can be aggressive on defense than one who has to play soft, unless they are just so bad offensively you can't afford it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
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