Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by flgator2, Dec 20, 2018.
No, Mexico isn't paying for wall through Trump's trade deal
Let me guess, pilots are now a bunch of liberals who don't care about border security?
Pilots association urges Trump to work to end shutdown, says it is affecting the 'safety, security and efficiency' of US airspace
A national pilots association is urging President Donald Trump "to take the necessary steps" to end the partial government shutdown, saying that the stalemate is "adversely affecting the safety, security and efficiency of our national airspace system."
"On behalf of the 61,000 pilots of the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA), I am writing to urge you to take the necessary steps to immediately end the shutdown of government agencies that is adversely affecting the safety, security and efficiency of our national airspace system," DePete wrote in the letter.
"The nation's airspace system is a complex transportation network that involves government and industry partnerships to function properly, and the disruptions being caused by the shutdown are threatening the safe operations of this network," the letter read.
The letter said that due to the shutdown, there are fewer safety inspectors working at the Federal Aviation Administration, who are "needed in order to ensure the air traffic control infrastructure is performing at its peak levels of performance."
I hope not. This is damaging to people's lives.
Am I correct in assuming that this same letter went to Pelosi and Schumer??? If not, then I will assume that the author of this letter is partisan and using their union position to promote one side of the issue.
Well, there was a deal. Trump is the one who blocked it.
There has never been a “deal”. As an attorney, you know that there has been no good faith effort on the part of Nancy Pelosi and Upchuck Schumer to negotiate a compromise. Their “deal” was no such thing. It was their offer position. To portray it as anything else is disingenuous on your part.
Your “deal” is the equivalent to me walking into the Mercedes dealership and offering them $50,000 for an AMG SL. They won’t take the offer, but it doesn’t give me the right to say we had a deal, but they blocked it.
They can counter my offer at $145?,000 if they wish, and then that would be good faith negotiating on their part. There is no “deal”until both sides give and take and settle somewhere in the middle.
They took a voice vote because it was not opposed. By Democrats or Republicans. The deal was announced by Mitch McConnell. Seems like a "deal" to me...
No, there was a deal. The Senate sent a bill to the House. Ryan refused to vote on it because Trump told him that he would veto it. Prior to Trump's statement, the House was going to pass it.
There have actually been two deals. Months and months ago, Schumer and the dems had openly offered Trump the full $25 Billion in exchange for DACA. The crazies and the right wouldn't except that because "No Amnesty". Which is the same crap they always come back to. So that possibility got blown up. No idea where Trump thinks he's going because with this, with the dems taking control of the house there won't be a better deal. Most likely there won't be anything close to that on the table again.
There was 100% a deal on this shutdown because the Senate even passed it by voice vote (republicans too cowardly to have a real vote, but it was unanimous by voice vote)!
Senate passes stop-gap funding bill in effort to avert government shutdown - CNNPolitics
That is the exact same bill the House just sent back on day 1 of the new House. The more recent "deal" was merely to keep the govt open through February, so it really wasn't much other than kicking the can down the road. But again, the crazies on the right got in Trump's ear and demanded a shutdown while they still had control of the house of reps.
Can’t deprive the Saudi Crown Prince’s family of everything they paid for!
No, to use your analogy, it's more like this. Car dealership advertises the AMG SL at $145,000. You go in, talk to the salesman, and say you'll buy it at full price because you're such a nice guy. You shake the salesman's hand, and his manager gives you a thumbs up from the back room. You sign on the dotted line, and the salesman does too. But then when it goes back for the manager's signature, he comes out and demands an extra $50k because he realized at the last minute that he needs the extra money to meet his sales numbers that he promised to the owners of the dealership. You say it's not going to happen and the manager loudly and melodramatically complains to his owners that the buyers in this town "just don't negotiate in good faith."
More accurately, there was a deal and Trump went back on his commitment to sign it. Just like he does business. So, the Dems and GOP really have no basis to assume that any negotiations with Trump are on good faith.
That is an offer, not a deal
A deal between two of the 3 parties, to make an offer to the third. Their can be no deal until all parties have agreed. Until then, it’s just an offer.
If everybody is willing to reopen the government, sans border wall, but trump, then who is responsible for the government not being open? TSA and Air traffic controllers certainly don't need a wall to do their jobs.
Actually, there could be a deal. We have a way to bypass the President, which should be easy given the universal support of that bill. The other party of the agreement, however, reneged on their agreement because they don't want the President's ire.
No, that's a deal. There is one person standing in the way of the shutdown ending.
i.e. right now this shutdown is 50/50 trump/McConnell's fault.
The Shutdown Is Mitch McConnell's Fault
The Senate majority leader can end the shutdown by defying Trump. He's just refusing to do so.
It's Trump's insistence on a wall that has manufactured this crisis, and it's the White House that has been leading negotiations with Democrats in Congress. But even if it feels like Trump is holding the government hostage to get his wall, he can't do it alone—Republicans, and in particular Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, could restore what passes for normality in this era any time they wanted to.
The US has weathered government shutdowns before, but the circumstances of this one are particularly embarrassing. In December it seemed likely that Congress would do what it had done before to avert a shutdown and pass a short-term spending bill to keep the government open; the Senate easily passed such a bill without including money for the wall. But the House didn't take up that bill and instead moved on a bill that purported to fund a wall. The embarrassing part is the new Democratic House passed a non-wall spending bill last week, but McConnell has refused to do what he did last month and introduce a shutdown-ending bill. He called the Democrats' bill "political theater" and said just before its passage, “The Senate will not take up any proposal that does not have a real chance of passing this chamber and getting a presidential signature. Let’s not waste the time.”
This is a flagrantly dishonest bit of positioning, even by McConnell's low standards. Trump could of course veto any spending bill passed by Congress, but a two-thirds majority could override his veto and end this stalemate. The only thing that's required is a bit of courage on the part of Republicans.
For such a veto override to take place, 55 Republicans in the House and 20 in the Senate would have to join with the Democrats and defy Trump. That kind of reaching across the aisle is rare these days, but many Republicans are openly frustrated with how Trump is handling this situation and some have called for reopening the government or at least funding the Department of Homeland Security. (Other portions of the government have been funded by previous piecemeal spending bills.) Republicans are fed up with Trump on other issues, with some criticizing him for his announced withdrawal from Syria and new Senator Mitt Romney blasting his low morals in a Washington Post op-ed.
It was a deal that Trump verbally agreed to. It only was after the Senate passed the bill and the House was going to vote on it did Trump have a change of heart and said he'd veto any bill that didn't include $5 billion for his wall. The House decided not to vote on anything because a bill signed by a R lead Senate and R lead house, vetoed by a R President isn't good optics.
Fast forward to today, with the D lead House, that has passed a bill similar to the Senate's original bill, which is temporary funding, no wall money. It's now on the Senate floor and McConnell is refusing to put the bill on the floor.
So who is responsible for the shutdown? The D's, who agreed to $1.3 billion in border security funding and had an agreement in principle before (R) Trump reneged? Trump, who went back on his work on the initial agreement and now won't sign anything that has less than $5 billion for his wall, and is threatening to call a national emergency to get his wall funded? (R) McConnell, who won't even let the new Congress bill see the floor of the Senate?
From where I'm sitting, Trump, and now McConnell are the hold-ups. The D's are never going to agree to $5 billion of wall funding. McConnell should put the bill on the Senate floor to see if there is enough votes for a veto override, but like he always does, McConnell is putting party before country.
You can certainly blame the D's, but they are doing nothing more than sticking to their original position of not funding $5 billion for the wall.
it's sickening to hear Trump talk about a humanitarian crisis at the border while creating one for thousands of American families. But it's not surprising, given that he and his lackeys are already criminals. Separating children from their parents as they did with no way to have them returned is a crime against humanity. The only difference between Trump's gang and the World War II Nazis is that Trump's gang didn't kill families, it just separated families forever. But no one thinks anything of it. Those families do, of course, but so what?