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Trump says he'll declare an emergency to Build boondoggle wall that no one wants

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by WarDamnGator, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    The wall has always been a boondoggle. It won't stop a single person from overstaying a visa. And those walking in are motivated enough that a wall won't stop them, or slow them down significantly. And it's not just my opinion. Here's a story that quotes two Professors who study immigration and population.

    Dr Nadia Flores, a researcher at Texas Tech University and herself a former undocumented immigrant, has been tracking the movements of people from Mexico and El Salvador to the US.

    She has studied the systems by which immigrant communities, together with employers and landlords, help undocumented individuals thrive in the US and drive the continued flow of people.

    "You have the demand for labour, and as long as you have the demand for labour and employers recruiting workers through these social networks, they are going to continue bringing people,” she said. “No matter whether you have a wall, these workers are going to find a way to cross and get to the US because they have this magnet attracting them."
    Right size the supply for immigrant labor with demand and we'll have much better control of the flow of migrants coming and going over the border. And a wall becomes even more of a boondoggle.
     
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  2. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Sorry, Nadia Flores. I'm not persuaded.

    Look at the end of the day, if Trump is doing nothing more than re-directing funds that are going to be wastefully spent by the military, then why fight it so tooth and nail.

    Build it, let it fail and then you can peacock strut around in all your glory.

    Why fight it against it so ardently?

    Because they know it will work. What's ironic about the whole issue is that every president for the past 30 years has been saying that we need a physical barrier.

    but when Trump actually wants to do it......
     
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  3. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    Hard to think she would be unbiased:

    Dr Nadia Flores, a researcher at Texas Tech University and herself a former undocumented immigrant, has been tracking the movements of people from Mexico and El Salvador to the US.”
     
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  4. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    You aren't proposing building a wall in South Florida, so this is irrelevant.

    I guess I had too high of expectations. A wall is not a practical solution.

    Trump received 25.9% of the vote in El Paso. Now, I assume next you'll argue that people could have changed their minds on Trump once he got into office. Well, Ted Cruz received 25.0% of the vote in El Paso in 2018. I don't recommend trying to argue for the wall based on El Paso or the other border communities. They overwhelmingly reject it and the Republicans who campaign on it.

    P.S. A number of the people at the rally came from outside of El Paso.
     
  5. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Because it's a symbol of prejudice and ignorance. It's the same reason why I want the Confederate Civil War monuments on government property taken down.

    Imagine if we applied your argument to anything else. "Why oppose Medicare for All? Because they know it will work." "Why oppose gun control? Because they know it will work." "Why oppose free college and a $15 minimum wage? Because they know it will work." Yeah, you're setting quite the precedent. :emoji_smile:
     
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  6. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    This argument would be more meaningful if you looked into her research and offered up where her methodology is flawed. She would have a better understanding of the issue than most people having lived it. Thus, if you're going to discount her work, I'd expect more than just, "She's biased because of her background." Would you automatically discount the research on racism of a black professor who grew up in the South during segregation because he or she is biased?
     
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  7. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Only it won't work. And no other President or agreement has ever mentioned more than 700 miles of wall, which is too much. But to get a Gang of Eight style bill passed, 700 miles is a compromise I'd be willing to make. Especially knowing that the expanded guest worker program would be implemented long before much of the wall would be built.

    Why don't I want the wall built so I can strut like a peacock? Here are a few reasons:
    • About 100 endangered species could be negatively impacted by the wall
    • Floods--much of the border area are subject to summer monsoon flooding, which has already negatively impacted areas where a wall is located (Nogales and El Paso). Building more of the wall could make flooding problems significantly worse impacting both wildlife and human life
    • The message of racism that the wall sends. We should be building bridges with Mexico and C. America, not erecting walls
    The wall is a multi-billion dollar boondoggle that will cause many more problems while solving nothing. It's nothing more than a Trump vanity project that is also a beacon for racism. I'd rather stop it before it is built, as I'll find little enjoyment after the fact in saying I told you so.
     
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  8. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

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    Did you notice the attendance at Beto O'Rourke's counter rally? Or did you just believe trump's lies about it?

    Getting 10,000 people to attend a rally in a nation of 325 million proves nothing either way. If it did, then what does it mean when 100,000 people attend a Tennessee Vols game? Does it somehow prove the whole country is behind the Vols?
     
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  9. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

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    Not the first time he's done it either.

     
  10. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    This is quite interesting to me:
    El Paso County, pro-immigrant group sue Trump over emergency declaration

    This case will go through the Fifth Circuit. I think there's a real chance Trump loses even in the Fifth Circuit. Even conservative judges aren't going to be happy about the constitutional issues present in the course he took. If he loses in arguably the most conservative circuit court in the country (the 8th has an argument), it's going to be a major black mark.
     
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  11. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    As expected, the D's in Congress are going to vote to end the emergency. Once this passes Congress, it will go to the Senate, who have 3 days to discuss in committee, then 15 days before the must have a vote. It will be interesting to see what happens in the Senate, and whether or not there will be enough votes to overcome a Trump veto.

    Rs in swing districts and states aren't going to like to have to vote on this. The majority don't want a wall, and I think most people do not like the Presidential power grab the emergency declaration entails. And having a vote on this puts a record on how the Congressmen and Senators are going to vote.
     
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  12. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    I think there's a good chance that Trump could lose in the Senate, too. My impression is that a number of Republican Senators aren't overly pleased with a presidential power grab and the possibility that it could be used as a precedent by a future Democratic president. That being said, there is virtually no way that Congress would override a presidential veto so in a way the resolution of disapproval is political theater albeit political theater based on principle.
     
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  13. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

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    Good news - now every member of Congress gets to go on record if they support the president declaring an emergency to sidestep Congress when he can't get his way on a pet project.

    House passes resolution to nullify Trump’s national emergency declaration

    The 245-182 tally was mostly along party lines, with 13 Republicans defecting to side with Democrats on a vote that effectively became a test of GOP loyalty to Trump. Despite their frequent complaints of executive overreach during the Obama administration, most Republicans fell in line with Trump’s decision to try to circumvent Congress to get billions of dollars for his border wall. As a result the vote fell well short of the two-thirds majority that would be required to overcome Trump’s threatened veto.

    “We are not going to give any president, Democratic or Republican, a blank check to shred the Constitution of the United States,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said on the floor ahead of the vote. Holding up a pocket copy of the Constitution, she asked Republicans: “Is your oath of office to Donald Trump or is your oath of office to the Constitution of the United States?”

    Now that the House has passed the disapproval resolution, the Senate will have approximately 18 days to take it up, a timeline set by the National Emergencies Act. The law also specifies that Senate passage takes only a simple majority, not the 60-vote super-majority often required in the Senate.

    That means only four Republican votes would ensure passage of the disapproval resolution — presuming Democrats stick together as expected. GOP Sens. Susan Collins (Maine), Lisa Murkowski (Alaska) and Thom Tillis (N.C.) have already announced plans to vote for the disapproval resolution, and other Republicans have been voicing concerns, including inside a closed-door lunch Tuesday with Vice President Pence where about a half-dozen senators spoke up with reservations, according to one person in attendance.
     
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  14. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    That is the base. When Trump says an Indiana federal judge should recuse himself from the Trump U case because the judge is of Mexican heritage, they agree.
     
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  15. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Why fight against it? Why not start with the fact there is no plan. None that has been articulated except “bills the wall.” Where? In the middle of a desert? In mountainous or rocky areas? In the middle of the Rio Hrande? Whose private property do we take? At what cost? What are the environmental consequences? What are the advantages as opposed to increasing manpower and patrols? We have never debated the plan here because there is no plan. Only support for “the wall,” whatever that is.
     
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  16. citygator

    citygator Premium Member

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    Paul Rand says he won’t support the action. He is getting crucified in the responses to his tweet. Pubs are crazy - “by any means necessary”.

    Ultimately this won’t make it through the courts and will go down in history as the moment the Republican Party failed and became irrelevant.

     
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  17. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    Rand Paul is correct. Glad he grew a spine.
     
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  18. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    I wish I could agree. It seems far too many in that base have lost their North Star. They are simply part of the team and only care about the team winning.
     
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  19. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Agree. It wasn't that long ago when conservatives would be horrified that a president would use the device of declaring a national emergency to usurp the power of Congress. The same conservatives would objected to Obama's use of an executive order to protect the DACA recipients are willing to give Trump a free pass and he has gone much further than Obama given that Congress expressly decided not to appropriate the funds that Trump has requested for his wall.
     
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  20. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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