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Trump no longer satisfied with dog whistles

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by ursidman, Jul 14, 2019.

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  1. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Legend

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    He really needs to shut up...
     
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  2. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Legend

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    Of course "some" would... There's always fanatics on both sides...

    We desperately need the state of our politics to move away from picking between "the lesser of two evils." Because frankly, this is embarrassing...

    Both sides simply need to call out when one of their own, even the president, does something wrong... This would be a good example of that...

    EDIT: If Biden wins the primary.... this comment may be the last nail in the coffin for Trump's presidency... and frankly he has nobody to blame but himself... Biden inserts his foot in his mouth constantly... but nothing like this...
     
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  3. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    My friend Merriam says that "saying" is in fact "doing" by definition.

    Definition of DO

    I don't think Merriam nor Webster were stuttering. Unless they had an agenda to sell more dictionaries for their own personal benefit.

    "I know I said 1 + 1 = 3, but I can't believe that guy didn't know that I really meant 1 + 1 = 2. What a dummy. Didn't he know I needed 1 + 1 = 3 to close the deal??".
     
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  4. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Legend

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    I'm not denying that saying something is an action... :rolleyes:

    And you probably know that... But you have no interest in good faith discussion... So why should I bother wasting my time with the likes of you?

    Again, this would be the inverse of "Do as I say, not as I do..." If you don't understand the point I was making, you're sticking your head in the sand... and based on my conversations with you in the past, probably intentionally...
     
  5. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    I get the "Do as I say not as I do", it's called hypocritical lying as it is fundamentally BS. Are we that pathetic as a species that we cannot overcome that? What is the problem with stating that water is wet and the sky is blue? Are we forced to accept lying and capitulate to it? Is that all we got?? Aren't we better than that? I guess not. Pass me the Bush Light then.
     
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  6. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Legend

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    I don't know if you've noticed, but politicians have a long history of rhetoric not matching policy...

    It's sad but it's true... I don't know what rock you've been living under your whole life, but it's always been that way...
     
  7. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Does the rhetoric not really match the policy? Puerto Rico, intentional family separations, limiting legal immigration, trying multiple times to ban immigrants from certain countries. Trump has done a lot of things that match the ugliness of his rhetoric.
     
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  8. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Legend

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    The media savaged Trump when he claimed Puerto Rico officials were mismanaging disaster aid. But he was right

    I don't see simply limiting "legal immigration" as ugly... you have to be more specific than that...

    Family separations are bad... But they didn't start with Trump...

    Separating Kids at Border: The Truth | National Review

    Whenever Trump has supported family separations at the border, that would be another example of morally abhorrent rhetoric... I've always thought he says stupid things... this, however, is up there with his comments about the "fine people in Charlottesville," unfortunately...

    That said, Democrats need to do their job, too... and support humanitarian aid to border facilities...

    Emergency Aid for Migrants Badly Divides Democrats

    EDIT: I think the real question in regards to family separation as it pertains to this discussion is, "what can Trump do about family separation?" Which is an honest question on my part... From my understanding his latest comments are trying to pin "family separation" on Obama... which doesn't really sound like an endorsement of family separation... though I do understand he's flip-flopped on what should be a very simple issue...
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
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  9. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    So you think what he said was okay.
     
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  10. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    So your argument is that the Trump Administration didn't do things like leave water sitting on runways for a year or hire politically-connected incompetents to help rebuild infrastructure. You sure?

    They attempted to specifically limit immigration from certain areas and of certain classes of people. Beyond that, they have used metering and other likely illegal methods to limit asylum seekers.

    That is a false equivalency. No other administration specifically sought to separate. Most of the children detained under Obama were unaccompanied minors. Separation was exceedingly rare. Trump made it policy and common.

    Asylum seekers, which is a legal form of migration, were also not separated.

    Very simple. Don't separate. Obama released both women and their children after 21 days to comply with the court rulings. Bush made exceptions in his policy for families. The Trump folks separated as a matter of policy and did so in a manner that resulted in some children still being separated who should not be under current law, as their record keeping was not sufficient to effectively administer the plan.
     
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  11. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Legend

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    It sounds like you're arguing that he's incompetent as it pertains to Puerto Rico, not bigoted...

    Again, a merit-based immigration system, particularly prioritizing countries that would have an easier time assimilating to American values/culture isn't really ugly in my book... In fact, it's arguably a good thing... Trump's presentation/pitch of course isn't the best, however...

    Are you suggesting to release the families into the general public after 21 days? Because that's not a legitimate solution to me, either... Where did the 21-day requirement come from? The 9th Circuit Court? Was that Trump's fault, too?
     
  12. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Strange that we didn't leave water sitting around when Houston needed it...

    What countries have "an easier time assimilating to American values/culture?"

    The courts ruled that limit on youth detainment. They could be detained together for that period. After that, we can choose to separate or choose to release both as their case is processed. Trump chose to separate, and exacerbated that by choosing to separate asylum seekers as well. They took the children with no plan on how to reunite.
     
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  13. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Legend

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    Perhaps Houston officials are more competent than Puerto Rico's...

    Western European countries, mostly... Simply because their culture parallels ours the closest... Not saying we should exclusively take migrants from those countries... but countries practicing Sharia Law... and migrants from countries such as Iran, for example... would certainly have a harder time assimilating to American values/culture... We'd also have significantly increased odds of bringing in radical Muslims... Bringing in Muslims from Iran as opposed to Muslims from France is an entirely different conversation...

    It sounds to me like the 9th Circuit Court is no better than Trump... They're basically saying, either release illegal immigrants or "asylum seekers" into the general public, or you don't care about children... I call BS... This is on them... every bit as much as it is on Trump... and it would be more on them if Trump hadn't defended family separation in the past...
     
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  14. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    It wasn't local officials. It was federal ones.

    So White people from Western Countries (since the others get "an entirely different conversation)? How is this not the policy that would be preferred by somebody expressing the positions of Trump from today?

    Asylum seekers are legal immigrants. So yes, they shouldn't be detained and separated from their children, as they haven't broken a law.

    Would you be okay with separating for other misdemeanors as a matter of policy?

    And no, saying that you need to release children from custody is not as bad as purposefully separating children. Again, one is a matter of policy that would be preferred by the type of person expressing these thoughts from the original tweet. The other is not.
     
  15. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Legend

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    Well now we're strawmanning...

    When did I say "White people from Western Countries?" As though White people are the only ones in Western countries...

    Maybe the 9th Circuit Court shouldn't be forcing a BS decision like, either release them into the general public after 21 days, or separate the families...

    Call it whatever you'd like... the fact of the matter is the 9th Circuit Court forced Trump to make a difficult decision... either release the families into the public (not a real solution at all) or separate the children from their families (also not a real solution at all)... Remove the 21-day limit... that should be the first step...

    Then, if they don't like staying at the detention facilities, give them the option to go home and leave the US.... We should simultaneously improve detention facility conditions, of course...
     
  16. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Well, not the Muslim ones apparently. Any other restrictions?

    I'm guessing you have no background to assess the decision. Have you even read it?

    They forced them to make a decision between a humane policy and one in keeping with the type of person that we saw in his tweet. Obviously, we see what he chose.

    But sure, we should just get to detain children indefinitely or force them to go back to their home country. The policy choice of people that speak like the President just did.
     
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  17. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Legend

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    Ahhh Strawman arguments and personal attacks...

    I think we're done here...
     
  18. LimeyGator

    LimeyGator Premium Member

    I don't like to comment on Trump specifically too much, because frankly my own political back yard has more than enough for me to shake my head at (and I don't like throwing stones from a glass house...)

    But these comments are an absolute disgrace from an elected politician of any nation, let alone the President of the USA - a nation that has stood as the absolute beacon of ideology that a modern democracy is built upon. These comments are overtly racist, pure and simple, and made in the clearest of terms. Telling someone to 'go back from where they came' isn't defensible or ambiguous.

    I find it such a sad state of affairs that 'civilized' nations like yours and mine have allowed this sort of racist rhetoric to become acceptable. I will never allow this to become normalised language and will continue to call it out. But perhaps even sadder is that some voices are trying to excuse him, or nuance another set of justifications for it, rather than condemning him. This is why I hate partisan politics - nothing compromises the values of decency more than towing the party line in defence of another. Everyone should stand up and call this stuff out!
     
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  19. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    The only thing the 9th Circuit "forced" is the U.S. government to abide by the deal it made. The U.S. came to an agreement in Flores to settle a lawsuit regarding the due process rights of minors in civil detention. That was part of the deal.
     
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  20. citygator

    citygator Premium Member

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    Anyone still supporting this guy should just strap on their white robe and hood and drive to work this morning in it.

    Dude is trash and will lose, and lose big, next year. I hope he keeps this up and puts the senate in play.
     
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