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Trump mentions Ilhan Omar at rally, crowd chants "send her back!"

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by channingcrowderhungry, Jul 17, 2019.

  1. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    In Omar's case it's beyond that.

    She equated al Qaeda to the US, the US army, and England. She characterized 9/11 as "some people did some thing."

    I would tell Bernie Sanders something similar. If you want the US to change so much to become like Denmark, why don't you move to Denmark. If you want the United States to go in the direction of almost all of Western Europe, well there's plenty of Western European countries to move to... whereas there's only one United States... there's truly nothing else like it in the world.

    I heard an analogy in another thread. If your roof has a leak, do you repair the leak or move? Well... Omar doesn't believe America has a leak... she believes that America has a far broader problem and has a problem with America, itself, as we know it. There comes a point where if you hate enough things about your house, you move... I think it's fair to suggest that this applies to Omar... It just shouldn't come from Trump because he spent his entire 2016 campaign talking about how much America sucks...
     
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  2. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Yes, they have a "their country." That country is America. When you are naturalized, you renounce all allegiances to other countries and swear an oath to America. This is Ilhan Omar's country. Somalia is no more her country than Cuba is yours. And yes, you are suggesting that she is less American because she was born elsewhere. You are doing so by claiming that it is acceptable to tell her to go back to Somalia while it is not acceptable to tell a person born here to go back to another country.

    And her wanting to change this country for the better doesn't mean she hates it. Trump's entire campaign was based around criticizing America and wanting to change it. You can't seriously claim she hates America unless you believe Trump hates America. In that case, why don't you tell Trump to go back to Germany?
     
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  3. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    If a Cuban were born in Cuba... No oath can change that as their original country...

    Stop mischaracterizing what I'm saying into something you want me to be saying...

    She's American... Nobody can force her to leave but herself... But she was not always an American citizen... No oath can change that... There was a point where she was a citizen of another country... She had another country at one point... People born here, never had an allegiance to another country....

    Doesn't mean she's any less American than you or me... Stating that she is a naturalized citizen and having comments implying as such.... is not racist or xenophobic... it's acknowledging a fact...

    So, no... it's obviously not the same thing...
     
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  4. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Don't move the goalposts. You're not stating that she is a naturalized citizen. You're stating that it is more acceptable to tell her to go back to the country her family left than it is to tell a person born here to do so, because she's a naturalized citizen. That necessarily treats her as less American.
     
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  5. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Are you suggesting that I knew that she's a Congresswoman elected to the United States House of Representatives from Minnesota, who was originally from Somalia, but I didn't know that she is a naturalized citizen? You're hilarious... :D:D:D

    I'm saying that it's stupid to tell someone who has no country to "go back to" to "go back" to "their" country. They never "came from" any country. Ilhan Omar "came from" Somalia. So, again, if she hates America so much, saying that she should go back to Somalia is not racist, or bigoted...
     
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  6. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

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    You are trying to defend the indefensible and failing at it. Hard to believe you can't see this.
     
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  7. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm not defending his comments towards AOC, Tlaib, and Pressley... those are indefensible...

    If he just told Omar to go back to "her" country... that's not racist or xenophobic... It may be stupid or hypocritical coming from Trump based on his 2016 campaign... but it's not racist or xenophobic...

    If it's the term "her" country you're complaining about... I mean c'mon... we're nitpicking here... Would you be suggesting that if he said, "her original country," it would not be racist or xenophobic?
     
  8. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Can you not keep what we were discussing straight?

    Your family came from Cuba. I am assuming you were born here. Somebody could tell you to go back to Cuba, because that is where your family is from. You recognize that is unacceptable. Yet, you argue that it is acceptable to tell a naturalized citizen to go back to the country they left. And then you try to argue that you're not treating them as less American by doing so. Yes, you are. It is obvious you are.
     
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  9. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    People can't tell me to "go back to Cuba." Because I never "came from Cuba." My parents did...

    How do you not see this?
     
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  10. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

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    He's/his comments are stupid and hypocritical, and racist. Everything you wrote is basically sophistry running amok. Wake up.
     
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  11. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Your family came from Cuba, and they're telling you to return there. They can certainly say it, and you recognize it is wrong. Yet, you fail to recognize why it's wrong to tell a naturalized citizen the same thing. That's because you consider them less American. I do see it. I see it perfectly well. And I think that's sad.
     
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  12. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Really? please explain to me how it's racist...

    Again, if you're subscribing to Gator lawyer's argument, you'd have to suggest that Trump should have said "her original country" not "her country" because "her country" is the US... But come on... we know that America is her country (perhaps Trump doesn't because his comments were in fact stupid), we don't need to make that clarification just to prove that the comments aren't racist or xenophobic... because it would be beyond stupid to believe that Ilhan Omar is not an American... She's a member of the US House of Representatives for God's sake... Of course she is...
     
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  13. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    How can I return somewhere I've never been, dude?

    Say your great ancestors came from Egypt but you never have been to Egypt... Can I tell you to "return to Egypt?" Of course not... You've never been to Egypt...
     
  14. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    Want to debate the policies, why high think the Ds are wrong and the Rs are right, I welcome that debate. But don't attack fellow citizens. And don't do it with an obvious racists trope. Bad enough if an ordinary citizen does it. But the President? Deplorable. And should be unacceptable to everyone. But plenty of Trump support.
     
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  15. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

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    That you need it to be explained to you is a bigly part of your problem. You seem to recognize that there is a problem in saying such a thing, but you want to claim it's not racist because of the the fact that she was born in Somalia. But that is frikkin irrelevant and nothing more than a distraction that ignores the effort to "otherize" her and treat her as less than American. And it's targeting a woman of color that makes it racist. Again, you continue to try to defend the indefensible. You seem trapped in an iron cage of bad reasoning.
     
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  16. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    You think asking someone to go back to their original country is a personal attack?

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with coming from another country...

    It's just a shame that you're stuck in America if you hate it so much...
     
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  17. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Ahh so if Trump told some lefty white radical from Britain for instance, to go back to Britain, it wouldn't be racist... Because it's a white guy...

    You can literally tell a white person the same exact thing, and it wouldn't be racist or xenophobic... Why is that?
     
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  18. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

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    You can tell a white person the same thing and it would be racist, but it would lack the sting because the bite of racism is found in hundreds of years of history and in its power to oppress and destroy. There is a wealth of information you can avail yourself to, but that takes having some courage and opening one's mind.

    Let me ask, if Trump sought to have your parents deported because they are from Cuba, would you be defending him still?
     
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  19. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    I mean seriously guys, not one but at least two posters here are suggesting that Trump's comments (even if they were exclusively directed at Omar) are xenophobic or racist just because she's a woman of color...

    Seriously... we can't even bother saying anything to people of color in 2019 without being called racist, even if it isn't a criticism... just something you don't like... It's absolutely unbelievable...

    It's quite the jump to suggest that someone tells a person of color to go back to their country specifically because of the color of their skin or ethnicity... especially if that person is constantly complaining about America and wanting to change everything about it... Who's to suggest that they would be told this if they weren't complaining about America and have only expressed gratitude for what this country had provided them as opposed to how evil they believe this country is... This has everything to do with behaviors and ideas... not color...
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  20. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    So a white guy can be racist towards white people?

    I'm so confused... o_O

    EDIT: If Trump were trying to deport Omar, I would obviously have serious problems with that... That's also not what he's doing to my knowledge...
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019