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Trump Calls Out NATO

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by diehardgator1, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. gatorev12

    gatorev12 GC Hall of Fame

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    Agree with everything here.

    Though I will say that NATO as a whole has been piss-poor at thinking strategically with respect to helping Russia's economy--and specifically their defense industries. Millions of dollars have been forked over to Russian defense companies over the last decade because NATO doesn't want to finance Eastern Europe military modernization: they want to charge full price on new equipment. As a result: you see Romania hiring Russian contractors to modernize their helicopters and APCs; same with the Slovenians, Bulgarians, etc.

    There really should have been a more concerted effort made years ago for the US and Europe to work out favorable financing loans for Eastern Europe to purchase newer equipment from US/EU countries. It improves the alliance militarily and helps Western economies as well (and it's also what Russia and China do to land defense deals btw). If Germany is bound and determined not to spend 2% on their military, then agree to grant special financing for other countries to beef up their militaries and call it foreign aid.

    Really, this is something we should be doing too. Very surprised Trump hasn't retooled our import/export development bank to do just that...especially since he's made arms sales more of a priority.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. gatorev12

    gatorev12 GC Hall of Fame

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    There was a telling comment from a senior European defense official last week: "when you're having a conversation with Matthis or other senior officials, you are almost lured into thinking you're dealing with a normal Administration. And then you check Trump's Twitter feed and realize none of it matters."

    Then again: Obama and his Administration officials made many of the same points and comments even more tactfully and more articulate than I did...for little to no result. Indeed, many European nations continued to cut defense spending from 2014-2016, in stark defiance of the reality on the ground. So who knows. While I don't particularly care for Trump's approach and have heavily criticized him for his ignorance on this topic: if he gets Europe off their asses, then it's about time.
     
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  4. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    . One reason people question his motives. Folks do not realize or care how serious things are. There is a real chance of a war between Israel and Iran and its proxies in Syria imminently. The Israelis have been doing overflights with US aircraft in Sourhern Syria. Russian air power has been used to support the Syrian-Iranian-Hezbollah forces. Netanyahu just left Russia. Will the Russians support Iran with air support in a war with Israel?
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  5. Gatormb

    Gatormb GC Hall of Fame

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    Man, I'm glad you posted this thread. Saved me the effort. Haven't started reading yet but Trump is doing what Libs have always wanted and now they want to bitch about it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Gatormb

    Gatormb GC Hall of Fame

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    D-. Finals coming though!
     
  7. Gatormb

    Gatormb GC Hall of Fame

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  8. Gatormb

    Gatormb GC Hall of Fame

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    Damn, is Fred coming back in multiple personalities?
     
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  9. gator_fever

    gator_fever GC Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Gatormb

    Gatormb GC Hall of Fame

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    It's early. 6.5 years to go. First things first (most have been accomplished)
     
  11. gatorev12

    gatorev12 GC Hall of Fame

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    Syria is a good example of why having European allies with capable militaries are so useful: France and Britain lent international credibility to the effort and their militaries took out tough targets. Burden sharing is important in all life relationships and the point of alliances are severely diminished if one side is doing 90% of the lifting.

    Rumor has it that Russia has told Iran to back off in Syria (for now) after Netanyahu's visit; but whether they do or not is anyone's guess. Assad and Tehran are very much aligned in wanting a fight with Israel and they like their odds: with European support for Israel at a low; and Trump largely looking to disentangle us from Syria.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. squigator

    squigator Premium Member

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  13. 108

    108 Premium Member

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    you know it's bad when Shep Smith feels the need to speak out

     
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  14. dynogator

    dynogator GC Hall of Fame

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    I know Trump watches FOXNews every day. I hope he paid close attention to this history lesson.
     
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  15. g8orbill

    g8orbill Old Gator VIP Member

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    it is amazing how the left and the never trumpers are attacking Trump for telling the truth-we pay almost 70% of the entire NATO budget(693 billion of the 1 trillion budget)- there is something wrong with this picture
     
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  16. gatorev12

    gatorev12 GC Hall of Fame

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    No, we spend 70% of total NATO defense spending. There is a difference that has been pointed out to you and to Trump. Frankly, it looks silly to keep repeating a known falsehood over and over. And totally counterproductive to what the actual goal is: Europe to step up on defense spending.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  17. Gatormb

    Gatormb GC Hall of Fame

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    Hey man, we've been getting screwed and Presidents promising to fix for 40 years. Being polite hasn't worked. Trust T. It's part of the Art of the Deal.

    Everybody was happy after the emergency meeting.
     
  18. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Except that is a lie. Trump is lying to you with fake stats. He's using you for a fool. What's actually amazing is you keep falling for it (although hardly surprising).

    NATO's budget is not $1 Trillion. Not even close. It's
    "budget" is closer to $2 Billion - with $1.4 Billion shared military budget and $250 million civilian budget. Additionally the U.S. contributes 22%, not 70%. The direct funding of NATO is allocated on Gross National Income. We have 22% of the GNI, thus pay 22%, other countries pay accordingly (big and small).

    Funding NATO

    [​IMG]

    We do spend 70% of the total military spend of all nations in NATO, but that's just another way of saying we spend WAY too much on our military as it is (since we spend more than the next 8 countries COMBINED in the entire world, allies and enemies combined). We spend 3.6% of GDP, the agreed number for NATO members is 2% by 2024. It's fair to cast doubt on some countries to meeting this commitment, I believe even Obama made some negative comments, but the way Trump is going about it (with lies and deception) is just dead wrong.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. GatorSean

    GatorSean GC Hall of Fame

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    I think Trump is right to call them out if they are not honoring their previous commitments.

    Unfortunately he has no credibility since he thinks the US shouldn't have to honor it's previous commitments.
     
  20. GatorNorth

    GatorNorth Premium Member Premium Member

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    You keep saying this.

    And it’s wrong every time.

    But the never Trumpers are the problem.

    Carry on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1