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Thousands of Haitians

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by rivergator, Sep 17, 2021.

  1. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    I find it hard pressed to believe this a result of strictly US aid and intervention in foreign countries. To suggest the US is solely responsible for such statistics would be ludicrous.
     
  2. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

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    I'll take, because most of them already live in the US for $1,000, Alex.
     
  3. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Not US aid or intervention. Trade.
     
  4. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Yes, most people from Mexico, a country with a population of 127 million people, live in the US. How many do you think are here?
     
  5. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

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    Just a joke, Francis...you might want to lighten up!
     
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  6. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Fair enough. It is tough to tell sometimes these days.
     
  7. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

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    Mighty true on this board.

    My first thought when I heard this was I wondered why are the Haitians stuck when just about every other migrant group has been welcomed, processed, and given bus or plane tickets to somewhere else in the U.S.? Doesn't seem like their situations are terribly different.

    On the other hand, if they are so poverty stricken, how the heck did they get to Mexico, which isn't just a long walk from where they came from?
     
  8. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    There are no quick solutions. This isn't a problem that will ever entirely be solved. But there are ways to mitigate it.
     
  9. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Well, that's the problem. We're not doing that. Biden is still using Title 42 to summarily expel the vast majority of migrants. That's the authority he's using here with the Haitians. That's why all the nonsense about Biden being weak on the border is so frustrating. He has been very much the opposite, and it has made me quite angry (because he made promises that he wouldn't act in this way).
     
  10. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    A Van Down By the River
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  11. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    So trade with these countries stopped all of a sudden? The US is not the only trade partner on the globe.
     
  12. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Of course there are ways to mitigate it and the current solution on the board is not the way to do it.
     
  13. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Who claimed that it stopped completely or that any level of trade would immediately stop immigration? We massively increased trade to Mexico. That increased jobs in Mexico. Mexican people had more opportunity in country, so they didn't leave in the same numbers they did before. We are, by far, the largest market with physical proximity to Central America and the Caribbean.

    Look, Republicans dance around this, but there are four basic solutions to this "problem:"

    1. Free movement of people/labor. Let people go where the jobs are.
    2. Free movement of capital. Let the capital create opportunities where the people are. This needs to be accompanied by an end to the drug war, which is just a capital restriction dressed up as some sort of safety policy (and has been massively ineffective as that).
    3. Both 1 and 2.
    4. Neither 1 or 2 accompanied by massive central planning, large government bureaucracies, and taxes. This is the least effective of the strategies.

    Unsurprisingly, the party that likes to frame itself as being for free markets and against taxes and big government have chosen the big government, high tax, central planning solution.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
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  14. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    One of the most important solutions will be helping to stabilize our neighbors, both in terms of governmental stability and economic stability. Any (legal) attempt to address this problem without reckoning with the external factors will prove ineffective.
     
  15. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    1. American citizens are free to go where ever they want. Including where the jobs are within and without the United States following proper protocols. Our protocols are broken period.
    2. And yet there are numerous places within the United States where capital is virtually non existent as capital migrates to the best of profitable environments.
    3. Both 1 and 2.
    4. While me may live in global economy we do not live in a world without borders.
     
  16. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Seems to me we had stabilized Mexico and some of the Central American countries concerning the issue of immigrants. Tell me again what happened to that stabilization.
     
  17. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Basically, you are defending central planning, where the government gets to tell people where they get to work. Just not American citizens. Basically, you want free movement for yourself, but not for others.

    That is what capital does. Are you saying that the government needs to play a role in dictating where capital goes?

    So, again, you are picking the higher tax, bigger government, more regulation, and central planning solution.
     
  18. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Since when does protecting a nation's borders imply any such notion. Our borders should be protected and we should have immigration policies that are reasonable. If you call that central planning I'm all for it.

    Capital will flow where it wants too regardless of immigration policies.
     
  19. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    I used to work for for a support sponsor partnered with World Vision. Very similar to Compassion in their work. We still sponsor multiple kids. Sadia in Bangladesh being our longest going on 10 years now. A little goes a very long way.
     
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  20. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    What you are describing is central planning. You want a big government agency to spend 10s of billions of dollars ineffectively trying to stop the free movement of people/labor. Because you consider that "reasonable." ...To what goal exactly? Ensuring lower population/economic growth both now and into the future?

    Glad that you are admitting that you aren't for free markets in general but prefer big government. Maybe the Republican Party should just drop the notion that they are for free markets altogether as well. Because it is obvious that they aren't for them any longer and much prefer the government to enforce central planning to address their prejudices/resentments/emotions.