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This was just hideous

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by akaGatorhoops, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 GC Hall of Fame

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    I like your optimism, but after 9+ games of this - I think this is who we are. I've seen no signs of White wanting to play a fast-paced style. If he really did, we'd be playing to that style, despite the growing pains. As it is we're a slow, methodical half-court team that can't make shots. I find more enjoyment from watching Billy's Thunder, who despite losing 2 superstars are on a 3-game win stream and #7 in the West. Billy gets the most out of his players. White simply does not.
     
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  2. mogator1

    mogator1 Premium Member

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    I am as baffled as the next person as to why we are playing at the pace we have been.
    I went back and pulled some stats that I found very interesting.
    CMW Teams at La Tech performed with the following KenPom stats - the numbers represent Team rank:
    Year Adj O Adj D Adj T (Pace)
    2012 204 190 71
    2013 187 35 25
    2014 85 29 16
    2015 80 93 44
    CMW Florida Teams
    2016 85 14 110
    2017 25 5 117
    2018 41 24 226
    2019 61 16 344
    2020 55 31 311
    Clearly, MW teams have been elite defensively (at least according to KenPom). Ths year's team has strted slowly on the D end but I believe will get to elite by years end.
    Maybe Eric could ask MW why the strategic change to slow the pace at Florida compared to La Tech teams?
    The change is mind boggling, especially with the athletes on this year's team.
     
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  3. gatorific

    gatorific VIP Member

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    Ive had the same thoughts about the PK 80, and also didn’t voice them b/c it seemed too simplistic - but we had Duke on the ropes , the guys playing with freedom , knocking down shots etc...

    I remember a post PK 80 interview with Coach White about our fast start and particularly about our transfers Hudson and Koulechov. I can’t quote word for word , but it struck me odd at the time - his answer to kind of a rhetorical positive question was pretty lukewarm with criticisms of our defense, specifically transition defense and effort level. Seemed strange after such an impressive performance.
     
  4. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Yeah... I don’t expect a fundamental shift, but I think this team will become very proficient in the half court, and more adept at picking some spots to run.
    We will see.
     
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  5. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    I can’t watch the NBA, but as to Billy... I wrote this on another thread:


    Donovan is my favorite coach in the history of sports... and the best we have ever seen or will see at UF.
    But he wasn't always able to do as described above, and wasn't immune to getting crushed on these boards, nor impervious to calls for his job. Billy had 5 years preceding the titles during which we failed to get out of the first weekend. . . . and during that time, the proverbial "noise in the system" grew quite loud.
    And there was a three-year span following the titles during which we failed to make the tourney twice and bowed out in the opening round once. And all of those rosters, at least on paper, appeared quite talented.
    Billy had 19 years at Florida, and it could be argued that he couldn't squeeze the expected results out of his rosters nearly half the time. . . . the 8 season I mentioned above, and his final year (9 total).
    Coaching is a tough gig, and it must be brutal having your livelihood tied to the performance of kids, and the frustrations of the fan base.
     
  6. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 GC Hall of Fame

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    all very true. The sad reality is we're a fickle fanbase - and so are many other programs' fans - that will complain no matter how good or bad we did. Billy's last season here was atrocious, but often when someone leaves (or dies), few forget the bad...only the good
     
  7. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 GC Hall of Fame

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    I hope you're right on both accounts
     
  8. cincinnatigator

    cincinnatigator GC Hall of Fame

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    Donovan brought in consistent talent and had America buzzing about our program. By his fourth season, we were in the national title. He produced 18 NBA draft picks including 6 in the top 10. White hasn't produced a single draft pick yet. It's a lengthy list why the two coaches don't compare. If MW's program were trending up (which is what we thought this offseason) the fans would have a completely different tune. But it's trending downward at a rapid pace. If White loses with this bunch, it's probably time to shut the ride down or get a completely different staff around White. He won't be able to sell any 5* prospects who don't play for Team Rio or live down the road. But the really bad thing is that we signed him to a long-term deal before this season with the expectations that it'd help with recruiting. We didn't even take a top 100 recruit this class after whiffing on about a dozen. That deal might very well backfire on Stricklin if we don't get it together very soon.
     
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  9. Gatorhead5

    Gatorhead5 GC Legend

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    True, but at least it was fun to watch. Mike Whites teams aren't entertaining even when winning.
     
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  10. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    You don’t need to sell me on Donovan.... as I said, my favorite coach of all times (any sport) and the greatest we will ever see.
    I do not draw comparisons to White.
    I was commenting strictly on Billy, and I think my comments were entirely true.
     
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  11. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    This Gator team is 6-3 (.667). Let's look at those non-conf schedules five years preceding the titles.

    2000: 10-1 (.909)
    2001: 11-1 (.917)
    2002: 11-2 (.846)
    2003: 9-2 (.818)
    2004: 8-3 (.729)

    They went 4-1 vs. FSU during that period. Those seasons may not have ended on highs, but at least they started with promise/hope. Until we see something completely different from this team, there is very little of that. I'm usually the last to be a gloomer/doomer, but I see not comparison between this team, which appears to be completely lost, and any Billy Donovan coached team. I say this with the understanding that only a few of Billy's teams had the kind of talent this squad "boasts."
     
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  12. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    I wasn’t intending to compare White and Donovan. I responded to comments about Billy always being able to squeeze everything out of his players and team. He wasn’t able to do so.
    No coach has that ability.
    That was my point, and it was supposed to be void of any direct comparison to White.

    Now, if we do want to make a comparison to past years and non-conference records... we should look at the strength of schedule. Without looking, I suspect the years you are pointing to had very weak schedules, as I used to rail about this constantly. Regardless, none of this changes the fact this current team is playing poorly, and way below expectations.... including my own.
     
  13. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    Actually, I didn't claim that you were comparing Billy to CMW: Only certain season outcomes. In the context of the discussion, you absolutely did compare Billy's outcomes to the current outcomes. You wrote . . .
    It appears your point that even great coaches like Donovan have strings of subpar outcomes. That's a comparison.
    Now to your point about strength of schedule, I'd like to think you are right. You might be. Then gain, how strong is this year's schedule? Those teams played Michigan St (2000 & 2001), Gonzaga, Arizona (2001 & 2003), Stanford, Kansas, WVU, & Louisville. Of course, there was FSU each year, where we went 4-1.

    If we don't compare this team to some of the middle-achievement Donovan era teams, what should we compare them to?
     
  14. HallGator

    HallGator Senile Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    Outer Limits

    There is talk that Samson Ruzhentsev is going to receive a 5th star.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
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  15. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    That’s not intended to be read as a comparison, but rather a statement. It was, however, a statement originally made following a comparison between White and Billy. I believe that poster was lamenting White not being able to maximize talent, and contrasted it to Billy... who was “always” able to do so. As much as I love Billy - I disagreed with this notion.

    As to your final point, I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t compare the coaches or their teams... just that I was intending to do so.

    To me, the most relevant comparisons are to the currently competing teams. And we aren’t stacking up too favorably at the moment.

    Regarding our schedule... I think it’s pretty darn good. Two of our three losses were to top 25 teams (FSU, Butler), and the third was at UCONN.
    Two games from now we play the leading vote getter just outside the Top 25, Utah State.
    One of our victories is over a Top 25 team, Xavier.
    So if Utah State bumps up one spot, we will have faced 4 ranked teams in our first 11 games.
    Solid.
    Of course, ya gotta won some of em.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
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  16. RD_gator

    RD_gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Speaking of Florida's non-conference schedule,
    #11 Baylor - 53, #18 Butler - 52.

    In the O'Dome in late January during the middle of SEC play, Florida (6-3) will get a crack at Baylor and another chance at redemption. Four non-conference games left (Providence, Utah St, Long Beach St & Baylor).


    Also, another #1 team lost: #1 Louisville - 57, Texas Tech - 70. Look for Kansas or Ohio St to be the new #1. Regarding the big picture, this will be the 4th #1 team to lose (Mich St, Kentucky, Duke, Louisville).
     
  17. RD_gator

    RD_gator GC Hall of Fame

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    Florida is not the only pre-season top 10 team to struggle this year.

    Just saw this ESPN article about the five most hyped teams and the five undervalued teams. Why five teams were overhyped, why five were undervalued

    Most Hyped:
    1. North Carolina
    2. Florida
    3. Kentucky
    4. Michigan St
    5. Texas Tech (Ironic since the red raiders just took down #1 Louisville)

    Undervalued: (UF will play #1, #2, #5)
    1. Baylor
    2. Auburn
    3. Michigan
    4. Ohio St
    5. Tennessee

    About Florida,



    As for Kentucky, perhaps John Calipari took an approach of the wildcats playing five cupcakes before challenging games (#3 Ohio St, #1 Louisville)
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  18. toddrl

    toddrl GC Hall of Fame

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    Really like his game, but zero chance he becomes a 5*....no one saw him this summer except 247 sports as they went to FIBA...they have him ranked correctly in the 50's IMO....none of our guys are in the ESPN 100 FWIW...not that ESPN rankings are the end all be all, and I do like the 2 HS kids we signed a good bit, but this class was a step back from the 18/19 classes for sure...and not sure how these 2 HS kids fit into what we are currently doing at all TBH
     
  19. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 GC Hall of Fame

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    guys playing with freedom is the key. after pk80, he had them thinking too much..and it's been the same ever since
     
  20. jeffphillips21

    jeffphillips21 GC Hall of Fame

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    if you can tell me what we're currently doing, i'd love to hear it.
     
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