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This Picture Sums It Up Pretty Well… Transgender Wrestler Taking Testosterone Injections Wins 2nd Te

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by flgator2, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    You would bet wrong. They should have every right to choose how they want to live their lives.

    Let the kid compete against the guys.
     
  2. tilly

    tilly Superhero Moderator with bulletproof posts! Moderator VIP Member

    Why? As a parent, you are often focused on an injustice to your own child. I would sue for my child's sake in that case.
    And the girl that is taking testosterone has parents who can sue on her behalf.

    Why is it the other girl's parents job to sue/lobby for the girl that is on testosterone?
     
  3. tilly

    tilly Superhero Moderator with bulletproof posts! Moderator VIP Member

    Have I said otherwise?
     
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  4. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    He is within the rules as constructed to compete against your daughter. Fight for fairness and justice. Do the right thing instead of the selfish thing. Everybody wins in that scenario. In the other scenario, you lose.
     
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  5. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator All American

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    They don't have to, but if the rule is that he/she can't compete with the boys, and your proposed solution to the unfairness of the situation is that he/she can't compete with the girls either, that's obviously not going to work (and, in fact, did not work). A court isn't just going to ban transgender kids from playing high school sports. There has to be some kind of workable alternative.
     
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  6. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    This person apparently wanted to compete as a boy, but the state of Texas wouldn't allow it because of the whole "birth gender" thing. So in a way, they created the unfairness in the girls division through their discriminatory law. Hell when I was in high school, we had actual girls wrestling against boys on the wrestling team. There was no such thing as a "girls wrestling" team. If this person wanted to wrestle against boys, let them IMO. There should be no gender restriction against playing boy's/men's sports. Any female athlete should be able to "step up" if they want to, and by extension, any "trans-gendered" athlete should have that same opportunity.

    That being said, if you have someone that is going the other way, the same issue would theoretically exist. There's been a few dominant female athletes that very well could have been transgender or perhaps hermaphroditic. It's a tough deal to regulate that IMO. Not really an easy answer to handle those rare cases. There is definitely a "fairness" element because obviously if a person even has even a slight bent towards male levels of testosterone (even if "naturallly occuring" rather than part of hormone therapy), that will put them at an advantage against most female athletes. Once you get into $$$ sports it absolutely should be regulated, not sure anybody cares about girls high school wrestling. But on this one, this person should have been allowed to compete as a boy. That would have solved the problem about the "unfairness" in the girls division.
     
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  7. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Considering that in a number of states, Virginia and Maryland among them, at least when my son wrestled in high school, there are not separate wrestling programs for girls. Boys, including one of my son's old teammates, who produce natural testosterone have lost to girls, . FWIW, Beggs was receiving a very low dose of testosterone.
    The transgender boy who won a girls' wrestling title said he didn't cheat

    The following is from the link I included in a previous post.
    This an excerpt from the biography of Helen Maroulis who won a gold medal in women's wrestling at the 2018 Olympics.
    About | Helen Maroulis

    I think an argument could be made that if a girl is an elite wrestler she may actually benefit from competing against boys in high school since higher caliber competition pushes elite athletes to their peak.

    Edit: i'm not advocating for coed wrestling at the high school level. Ideally Girls and boys should not be competing against each other, however when male and female wrestlers do compete against each other because there is no alternative, as is the case in a number of states it's not the end of the world for the girls and in the case of elite female wrestlers it may actually be beneficial.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  8. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

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    I don't think anything about this person's life will be easy.
     
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  9. RealGatorFan

    RealGatorFan Premium Member

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    So we have a girl who is transitioning via drugs so I would ban her/him/it from all competitions until they have fully transitioned. There, fixed the issue. It is taking advantage of both sides by having the best of both sexes. She is using PEDs plain and simple and that should be an immediate ban from all sports male and female. It's that way in all sports collegiate and professional. What Grier got banned for a year is about 1% of the potency of a normal T4 injection. Most girls trying to transition to a male are taking sometimes 7 times the dose of a normal injection. Especially at her age when her body is fighting so hard to make the transition into womanhood. I pity her because in the end, her life will be cut short. If you are going to start playing God with your body wait until your 20s to start. Keep an eye on pre-teens already making the transition - their lives will all be cut short and will have lifelong illnesses because the screwed up the hormones they were born with.
     
  10. sappanama

    sappanama VIP Member

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    A-the subject of the article is not a he, but a hormonally altered she, to argue she should wrestle boys is as wrong as saying he’s should or weightlifting ️ or play basketball in competition with she’s. This isn’t a field that can be leveled, let’s let the nba #2’s call themselves women and play in the wnba, let’s see the sjw’s allow that, even though objectively the quality of ball would improve. We don’t let hormonally altered guys play vs unaltered guys even, see the nose guard for climpsum as a recent example of why this wouldn’t be allowed sans the “everything is ok” bs that is sweeping our country
     
  11. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    The subject of the article is a he. That's what he considers himself. The very fact that you went out of your way to point that out tells me that there's no point in even trying to discuss this. It is quite clear that you don't accept transgender people.
     
  12. sappanama

    sappanama VIP Member

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    Check the dna, that will clear it up. I accept that she has the right to do whatever she wants, I balk at the idea that everyone else must bow to her decision. In bending over backward to “accept” her new psychological identity and chemically altered anatomy, you completely ignore and devalue the biologically unaltered female wrestlers rights hard work and sacrifice. So to sum it up it isn’t her decision to identify as a guy but her use of performance enhancing hormones in sports competition that makes this unlevelable ( new word). I apologize that your sensibilities are so offended that you see “no point” in further discussion, sort of like crying and taking your ball home isn’t it. an argument that changes the fabric of a society should contain more than but, and oh shut up. Ps differing opinions are what make life interesting
     
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  13. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    I've already laid out my arguments in this thread to the points you've made. You are welcome to read the thread and see them. There's a concept in the law called futility. When a person goes out of his way to reject a transgender person's identity, it's quite clear how you feel about transgender people. It would be like me trying to discuss the merits of Obergefell with a heterosexual person who refers to gay people as "homos." There's just no point when it's clearly a futile effort. But if you're curious about my reasoning, feel free to read the thread. I've already said my piece.
     
  14. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Definitely one of those situations where, I'm sure, Texas and their attempt to control gender identity has backfired on them. I keep hearing cons say people need to be held to whatever their birth certificate says. Now, we have a case where doing just that has caused a trans-gender boy to have an unfair advantage over girls.

    This is probably a case where sensible rules need to be created for fairness, and I think those rules should disqualify anyone using PEDs, even if medically necessary, from competing, or at least draw where a person with testosterone levels above has to compete against boys, and testosterone levels below competes against girls.
     
  15. MaceoP

    MaceoP GC Hall of Fame

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    I like the way the NCAA handles it. They have specific rules regarding transgender people. IMO, it should not rest on self consideration. When a transgender athlete reaches certain stages of their transition, they are allowed to compete as the opposite sex. While undergoing transition and taking drugs, i don't think the athlete should be eligible to compete.
     
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  16. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    As long as his testosterone is within the normal range for guys, I have no issue with him competing against the guys.
     
  17. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Or in the other words, if he were competing at the college level he would be eligible to compete under the NCAA's medical exception rule.
     
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  18. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    The NCAA has a medical exception rule for normally banned substances, which includes testosterone for transgender males. If Texas adopted the NCAA rule, Beggs would have been allowed to compete against males and would have been prohibited from competing against girls.
     
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  19. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    IMO, that's the way it should be handled ... but that would require recognizing him as a male, something the red states seem to want to fight to the bitter end, even if they are creating problems like this.
     
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  20. MaceoP

    MaceoP GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm under the impression the blue states want people to self determine whether they are male or female, depending on how they view themselves. At some point, red and blue have to come together and set up some ground rules as to how to handle this. Lot's of set asides in federal government contracting for women owned business that would also need ground rules.