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This Picture Sums It Up Pretty Well… Transgender Wrestler Taking Testosterone Injections Wins 2nd Te

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by flgator2, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Yes, the organizing body sets the rules and the athletes follow them. That's exactly what this kid did. It's not up to the athletes to prove the effect of whatever treatment they might have had.
     
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  2. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    The solution is pretty simple; either ban the testosterone supplements or change the classifications to having wresting classes that consider not only weight but testosterone levels.

    History is going to look back on times when we allowed children to do things like this to themselves and wonder why society ever allowed such a thing. I feel bad for this confused child. One day reality is going to hit (that "he" is not actually a man), and it won't be pretty.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
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  3. steveGator52

    steveGator52 Senior

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    Lebron wasn’t using PEDs to dominate those other kids, was he? The Gators aren’t taking PEDs to defeat the directional teams. Additionally, we are talking about state level competition, which is supposed to be the best female wrestlers in the state of Texas, not the dregs, so you are making an apples to oranges comparison.

    The girl was taking testosterone, in the levels required for her to generate male characteristics, while her opponents were not. So she has an unfair artificial advantage over the girls she is wrestling with. No one has a big problem with getting beaten fairly. Everyone has a problem with getting beaten by someone having an unfair advantage.
     
  4. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

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    Well, I was going to leave it with your post but decided otherwise. I think you are mixing up gender discrimination - men are superior to women - to an age and motivation related level. Middle school girls can and do compete against the boys, especially in soccer. Once the testosterone kicks in, they are left in the dust. It is what it is. I am a 60+ couch potato. Of course there are plenty of women who can beat me at plenty of physical activities. But against their motivation level, sorry but no.

    All a woman has been able to do is to be a placekicker. And the reason is because she can do it satisfactorily for that level of skill and not at the highest levels AND because the kicker isn't really a football player. The punter on the other hand is and can get hit and is expected to play at least like a safety. Women can't so that past middle school.

    Regarding LeBron, I was pointing out that Parker had something that LeBron did not and that was a good thing for Tony and unfortunate for LeBron. If you can compete on another level then I am okay with it. But as I said, 300 pound O-linemen in HS have been creaming 220 pound D-linemen for a LONG time. And as a team sport, that doesn't automatically mean that his team wins the state championship. He may run into a quick 270 pound guy opposite him. A 270 pound woman? c'mon.

    Regarding weak teams, you and I will just have to say we don't see the other side of the coin. You think it "accepting" in the name of competition and I am saying it is merely financially convenient and a "hiccup" so to speak in the season. And that is why teams no longer can be eligible for a bowl if one of the 6 wins is a weakling opponent.

    But still, if he/she wants a trophy as a testament to his/her "skill" then I won't kill them. However I will pity them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  5. steveGator52

    steveGator52 Senior

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    Doesn’t make what she did right, and it sure as hell wasnt fair for the other girls she wrestled against. She gamed the system, whether she intended to or not. As long as you get a doctor’s note, you can use PEDs to your heart’s content? Doesn’t work in college.

    Using testosterone testing is the simplest solution to the problem. If an athlete has a doctor’s note for a PED, it should be on the athlete to prove that it doesn’t provide an unfair advantage. If it was a boy getting supplemental testosterone, would there still be no issue with the boy playing? Or would it be an immediate ban.
     
  6. Spurffelbow833

    Spurffelbow833 GC Hall of Fame

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    Enough to allow someone considering it to make an informed decision.
     
  7. BigCypressGator1981

    BigCypressGator1981 Premium Member

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    I’m seeing quite a few articles on the subject on the ole intertronz.

    Are they not sufficient? How many more are needed?
     
  8. LoyalGatorFan

    LoyalGatorFan GC Hall of Fame

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    And yet some people will still feel sorry for “him”...another example we are our own worst enemy in this country
     
  9. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Oh yeah, there are so many examples of history looking back on a minority group that faced invidious discrimination and saying, "You were too accepting of them." :emoji_smile:

    I know you honest believe what you're saying, but oh boy.
     
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  10. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    The irony is that "political incorrectness" caused this problem. If they had let him compete against the boys, there would have been no issue.

    Yeah, that's the point. The most common sense solution is to let him compete against the boys. Yet, you reject that solution and want to ban him from wrestling period. That is what speaks volumes.
     
  11. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    I don't know how you gathered that from what I wrote. These children have been abused, and some segments of society actively encourage it. What is happening to them is like implementing major plastic surgery on a child. If the young lady wants to wrestle, let her wrestle naturally wherever she may fall. I'm sure the parents are trying to do what they think is best, but that's what makes it truly sad. At some point, this child is going to find out her version of "there's no such thing as Santa."

    We can only play make believe so far...remember the person wanted to be a cat?

    [​IMG]

    At what point is enough enough? Or do you just keep letting a child go down a path that leads to destruction and then one day say "they should have known better?"

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
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  12. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    The most common sense solution is to ban testosterone supplements.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
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  13. tilly

    tilly Superhero Moderator with bulletproof posts! Moderator VIP Member

    Unless your daughter is the best wrestler in the state and is getting beat unfairly two straight years.
    It is very important to them.
     
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  14. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Yeah, this sounds an awful lot like how gay people, especially gay teenagers, were regarded in the past. And history has not looked kindly on that.

    The most common sense solution is to let him wrestle with the guys who have the same levels of testosterone. But that would entail treating a transgendered person decently. And I know we can't have that. History wouldn't look kindly on it. :emoji_smile:
     
  15. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Good point. Instead of trying to bar him from competing, the parents could have lobbied to allow him to compete against the guys, which was his desire (that would have been the kind and decent thing to do). But they chose the first path and lost in court.
     
  16. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    We're talking about chemically altering someone's body. It's not even remotely close to the same thing.

    Ah yes, that ambiguous word that nobody can seem to define. (slow clap) Agree to disagree on the "common sense solution."

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
  17. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    It's quite similar. Gay people were abominations who went against nature. Now, the same thing is said for transgendered people. Sadly, there is a large group of people in this country who dislike those who are different and feel they have a right to tell them how to live their lives.
     
  18. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Sure, humans and dogs share 84% of their DNA, so technically there is some, heck, a LOT of similarity there, but nobody is talking about humans and dogs as being similar. In this same way, gays having a conditioned desire towards the same sex is not at all practically related to the "conditioning" that takes place with the implementation of testosterone treatments. It's apples and giraffes.

    I bet you don't feel the same way on "tell them how to live their lives" when it comes to efforts on helping people who do not wish to be gay overcome it (just the mere phrasing of this will probably make some readers gasp in horror). Perhaps I'm wrong, though...even if I am (as it applies to you), I'm sure you understand the point I'm getting at as it applies to the "tolerant" ones of our society.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
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  19. tilly

    tilly Superhero Moderator with bulletproof posts! Moderator VIP Member

    Well I am "religious", and am just simply sorry the other girl lost to the girl taking testosterone twice. It was unfair to her.
    Are there some that are fueled by hate? Of course, but I think most are fueled by the lack of fairness here.
     
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  20. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator All American

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    There are plenty of girls in high school that kick the crap out of "equally-motivated" boys in all kinds of sports (to say nothing of "less motivated" boys). On average, will boys be better? Yes. Are the very best boys better than the very best girls? Usually yes on the high school level, and definitely at the pros. But there's a whole range in between where a sufficiently talented girl can run circles around your average boy, notwithstanding any physical disadvantages. Do you think Serena Williams was losing to boys in high school? How about Michelle Wie? Alex Morgan? These are girls that were good enough to go pro while your average boy was just learning the fundamentals.

    Even for football, one of the most male-centric sports around, you still see girls winning starting spots on high school teams -- and not as kickers. Not many, but it's not unheard of, despite basically no one encouraging girls to learn football.

    LeBron has been in the conversation for best player on the planet from like his second year in the league and walked from high school into a first over all pick and a 90 million dollar endorsement contract. He was hardly disadvantaged by not playing high school ball in France. But that's irrelevant -- the point is, it was completely unfair for his opponents to be matched against a boy who was basically an NBA all star in all but name. But the league said he could play, notwithstanding his ability, so he played. I doubt he earned any kind of real satisfaction in destroying a bunch of low talent high schoolers, but he did it anyways, because it's not his job to make his high school league fair. Just like it's not this kid's job to make his/her high school league fair. That's the administration's job. His/her job is to play. Whether the talent imbalance is caused by some financial incentive (Gators), lack of available higher level opponents (LeBron), or a failure of the league to place you correctly (this kid), very few kids will forfeit playing just because they think the outcome is a foregone conclusion.