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The World needs to hold China accountable

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by defensewinschampionships, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    Nope, covering President Biden.
     
  2. Bazza

    Bazza GC Hall of Fame

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    Like I said......it's not going to happen.......
     
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  3. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

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    I have self-censored two replies because I thought they sounded snarky upon reading them back, so I am hoping that the third time is the charm. Ultimately, here is what I believe:

    1. I can respect other opinions and I am not going to try and change someone else's.
    2. I believe that the US and China create a ton economic wealth, and that relationship, if broken will create even more mass poverty.
    3. I believe that global manufacturing will remain exactly that....global.
    4. I agree that rather than pissing money away on stupid arse things like phony border walls, expanding the fake idea of "insurance for all" and other non-sense, the government should identify key security related industries and use money to foster USA based companies and product where possible. They should use the SEMATECH model of the 1980's and 1990's when it looked like the Japanese were going to destroy the entire US based semiconductor industry.
    5. I do not believe for 1 second that the people in China are my enemy, any more than the people in Russia were not my enemy in the 1980's through today. I believe that governments, however, are corrupt (ours included) and only exist to serve themselves and enrich the inner circles of power. The Chinese (and Russian) government is my enemy, but not the indivdual people.

    A small personal example: in the midst of all of this insanity, our BJ China team, without us asking or knowing about it, pulled together a hundred masks out of their own limited supply and shipped to our US lab teams out of concern for our teams in the US considering that in labs you are forced to work in pretty close quarters and a virus can spread much more quickly in such an environment, and because our industry is critical for national defense and communications, we remain working through all of this. This was before the virus had really been reported about in the US, and China was in a constant daily struggle for survival.

    That was not a gesture by governments, they could care less (China or the US)...but people, individual people who should care about each other. So, as weird as it may be to some, I draw a distinction between people and governments and do not lump them all together.
     
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  4. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Free Press = Accountability

    All governments try. Theirs does it with no opposition. HUGE difference.
     
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  5. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    That still doesn't entirely make sense though. If they are manipulating the numbers for better PR or to fool other countries, those countries have things like a "free press" (or even an unfree press) that will create doubt about those numbers for various reasons, contrived or not. And you could say its to fool their own people, but I'd think people on the ground there sort of know what the deal is too. I remember some people saying the Chinese ordering a bunch of burial urns that outweighed the number of reported deaths was proof that more people were dead than reported. The federal government just ordered 100,000 body bags (on top of their 50k stock), which I don't think is proof that more people are dead than reported. Nor is it necessarily proof that they expect that many people to die either. Yet, they are both essentially the same story, interpreted different ways.
     
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  6. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    Is anyone seriously believing China's numbers? US, Italy, and Spain have passed them in total cases with Germany right behind China. It would be interesting to see where the people went from Wuhan the two weeks prior to China's lockdown of the city?
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
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  7. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    I think skepticism is warranted, but I'm not sure what the tangible evidence is that they are 100% *not* believable either. The same skepticism should be applied to our own biases about China when assessing the situation too. Its quite possible they have done a better job containing the spread of the infection, even if by draconian means that would be impossible to fathom in liberal democracies. That's just as probable to me (if not more) as some kind of massive coverup to hide the severity of the 'truth.'
     
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  8. g8rjd

    g8rjd GC Hall of Fame

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    What’s interesting is that it appears to have gone from a bat to a pangolin to human. The pangolin is an endangered anteater type animal (and is actually kind of cute), but one of the reason that China has wet markets is because of the taste of the very wealthy for these rare and endangered “delicacies” while the people that sell them are anything but wealthy and keep the animals in extremely unsanitary conditions.

    There was an interesting Vox video on the history of wild animal farming in China and how little of the population participates, but the very wealthy want it so the government keeps appeasing them.
     
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  9. RIP

    RIP VIP Member

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    Reports from people that actually live in Wuhan say the crematoriums ran non-stop for a very long time. That doesn't sound necessary for 4k people...
     
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  10. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

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    If this was a PR move, then our media bought it hook, line, and sinker. They have been reporting China's numbers as fact for weeks when anyone with two functioning brain cells to rub together should have been able to call BS on them. Just taking a look at their extremely strict guidelines for reporting a "confirmed" COVID-19 case could tell you they were under-reporting by at least a factor of 10.
     
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  11. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    Nah, lots of people that think the MSM is gullible or not credible bought those numbers too because it served their narrative that the disease wasn't a big deal. Lots of the same people pretending they were wise to it all along now. We're watching confirmation bias and goal posts moving in real time.
     
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  12. Emmitto

    Emmitto GC Hall of Fame

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    "China has been through much & has developed a strong understanding of the virus," Trump said. "We are working closely together. Much respect!."
     
  13. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

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    So how does it serve the the US media's narrative to report as fact numbers from a repressive regime with a state-controlled media figures? We aren't talking about average Joe six-pack here that just wants to hear what he/she wants to hear. Ostensibly, we are talking about folks that we would hope would be able to exercise a modicum of critical thinking.
     
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  14. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    What interest would it serve if they reported them as propaganda or obviously lowballed without any evidence?
     
  15. Crusher

    Crusher GC Hall of Fame

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    I would venture to guess that it could cause no more harm than reporting fiction as fact.
     
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  16. wgbgator

    wgbgator Tiny "Boop Squig" Shorterly Premium Member

    So in your view reporting figures of a foreign government somewhat credulously that you can ultimately make your individual own judgement about is just as 'harmful' as the media reporting completely unsubstantiated conspiracies that the numbers are rigged as factual news? This explains a lot about conservative media.
     
  17. CharlestonGator

    CharlestonGator Premium Member

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  18. studegator

    studegator All American

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    WASHINGTON — The C.I.A. has been warning the White House since at least early February that China has vastly understated its coronavirus infections and that its count could not be relied upon as the United States compiles predictive models to fight the virus, according to current and former intelligence officials.

    The intelligence briefings in recent weeks, based at least in part on information from C.I.A. assets in China, played an important role in President Trump’s negotiation on Thursday of an apparent détente with President Xi Jinping of China. Since then, both countries have ratcheted back criticism of each other.
     
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  19. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    The world needs to survive first
     
  20. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    That’s far too reductive.