Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

The Untold Story of Robert Mueller's Time in Combat

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by fastsix, May 15, 2018.

  1. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

    8,781
    757
    833
    Apr 11, 2007
    Seattle
    I continue to find it amazing that Republicans support trump and demonize this guy. Mueller is literally a Republican's dream of what an American should be. And trump should be the opposite, but somehow everything has gone topsy turvy in Republican land.

    It's not a short article and it appears in Wired Magazine of all places. After a short intro, the article is focused almost entirely on his time training for, and fighting in Vietnam.

    The Untold Story of Robert Mueller's Time in Combat

    Mueller, for his part, not only volunteered for the Marines, he spent a year waiting for an injured knee to heal so he could serve. And he has said little about his time in Vietnam over the years. When he was leading the FBI through the catastrophe of 9/11 and its aftermath, he would brush off the crushing stress, saying, “I’m getting a lot more sleep now than I ever did in Vietnam.” One of the only other times his staff at the FBI ever heard him mention his Marine service was on a flight home from an official international trip. They were watching We Were Soldiers, a 2002 film starring Mel Gibson about some of the early battles in Vietnam. Mueller glanced at the screen and observed, “Pretty accurate.”

    SECOND LIEUTENANT MUELLER, 24 years and 3 months old, joined the battalion in November 1968, one of 10 new officers assigned to the unit that month. He knew he was arriving at the so-called pointy end of the American spear. Some 2.7 million US troops served in Vietnam, but the vast majority of casualties were suffered by those who fought in “maneuver battalions” like Mueller’s. The war along the demilitarized zone was far different than it was elsewhere in Vietnam; the primary adversary was the North Vietnamese army, not the infamous Viet Cong guerrillas. North Vietnamese troops generally operated in larger units, were better trained, and were more likely to engage in sustained combat rather than melting away after staging an ambush. “We fought regular, hard-core army,” Joel Burgos says. “There were so many of them—and they were really good.”

    As he settled in, talk spread about the odd new platoon leader who had gone to both Princeton and Army Ranger School. “Word was out real fast—Ivy League guy from an affluent family. That set off alarms. The affluent guys didn’t go to Vietnam then—and they certainly didn’t end up in a rifle platoon,” says VJ Maranto, a corporal in H Company. “There was so much talk about ‘Why’s a guy like that out here with us?’ We weren’t Ivy Leaguers.”

    The strategically important piece of ground [Mutter's Ridge], which ran along four hills on the southern edge of the DMZ, had been the scene of fighting for more than two years and had been overrun by the North Vietnamese months before. Artillery, air strikes, and tank attacks had long since denuded the ridge of vegetation, but the surrounding hillsides and valleys were a jungle of trees and vines. When Hotel Company touched down and fanned out from its landing zones to establish a perimeter, Mueller was arriving to what would be his first full-scale battle.
     
    • Informative Informative x 5
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. gator_fever

    gator_fever GC Hall of Fame

    3,894
    493
    343
    Nov 3, 2013
    Never heard nothing bad about Mueller for his service just for him and his prior incompetent clown investigators ruining people over 9/11 anthrax case etc. while the real crooks skated. Mueller and some of his team have bad reps for wanting to get people one way or another even if it means skirting the law or just coming up with mess that the real evidence doesnt even support.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. G. Gordon Gator

    G. Gordon Gator GC Hall of Fame

    3,765
    1,008
    478
    May 3, 2017
    I thought I posted in this thread already but I guess I closed the window before hitting "Post Reply."

    Anyway...

    Are you arguing that someone with a commendable military service record should be immune from criticism?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

    8,781
    757
    833
    Apr 11, 2007
    Seattle
    On the topic of the trump investigation, Mueller, and his team, haven't said shit about shit. So any claims he's not acting in good faith, is a traitor, is on a witch hunt, etc. aren't based on fact. Since you and I have no idea what Mueller is or is not doing on this investigation, the best way to judge him is by his past and his past appears to be very honorable. As I said, he appears to be the Republican dream on what an American should be, yet the trump crowd attacks him daily for no other reason than they don't like he's investigating trump.

    Edit: and I suspect your post going "full Godwin" and comparing his military service to Hitler's military service was deleted by the mods.
     
    • Winner Winner x 6
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

    4,811
    783
    418
    Oct 30, 2017
    Wait, Mueller was overseas within a 5000 mile vicinity to Russia? Conflict of interest. Stop his investigation right now.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  6. G. Gordon Gator

    G. Gordon Gator GC Hall of Fame

    3,765
    1,008
    478
    May 3, 2017
    Ohhhh, so it did get posted. Interesting.

    Mueller is presently being judged by the way he has conducted this B.S. Russian collusion investigation, starting with his hiring of a whole slate of anti-Trump lawyers and proceeding downhill from there. His commendable military service does not render him immune from criticism over that, any more so than anyone else's military service mitigates or immunizes them from criticism over their subsequent actions that have nothing to do with their military service.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

    8,781
    757
    833
    Apr 11, 2007
    Seattle
    As I said, Mueller and his team have not said shit about shit in regards to this investigation. Any fault you find with it, is fault made up in your own mind, not fault based on facts. You're attacking an honorable man because you don't like the job he's doing, not because he's done anything wrong in doing that job.
     
    • Winner Winner x 8
  8. G. Gordon Gator

    G. Gordon Gator GC Hall of Fame

    3,765
    1,008
    478
    May 3, 2017
    I'm "attacking him," to use your melodramatic phrase, because he's doing a poor job with the investigation he's supposed to be efficiently and impartially conducting. His indicting of those Russian companies, for example, was a pointless stunt done for no reason other than to make it look like he's doing something. If Mueller is an honorable man or a combat veteran or a rescuer of abandoned puppies, that's beside the point; it doesn't mean nobody can make the observation that he is wasting taxpayer dollars on a politically-motivated witch hunt.

    Actually, now that you bring this up, since President Trump is commonly accused of using a phony or exaggerated medical deferment in order to avoid service in Vietnam, perhaps Mueller should've turned down this assignment or recused himself from it. How can a brave combat veteran who routinely saw his buddies getting blown up and shot in Vietnam be fair to an accused draft dodger?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
    • Like Like x 1
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  9. G. Gordon Gator

    G. Gordon Gator GC Hall of Fame

    3,765
    1,008
    478
    May 3, 2017
    Oh, and when Mueller, at long last, fails in his efforts to goad President Trump into firing him and finally has to admit that he's got zero proof of the Trump campaign colluding with Russia, we shall see if the liberals refrain from criticizing him because of his honorable service record. We shall see.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

    8,781
    757
    833
    Apr 11, 2007
    Seattle
    Again you have no idea what Mueller is or isn't doing. Your claim that he's doing a poor job is not based on facts. Your claim that he's not being impartial is not based on facts. These things are made up to attack Mueller. Nothing melodramatic about that word "attack", it's simply what you and those like you are doing. You're attacking him in the press and online in an attempt to discredit him and anything his investigation turns up.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    • Winner Winner x 8
    • Best Post Ever Best Post Ever x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. RayGator

    RayGator Moderator VIP Member

    56,216
    4,286
    2,118
    Apr 3, 2007
    Lakeland, Florida USA.
    No. Not at all. Their support will still be with him.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

    21,838
    1,110
    933
    Apr 8, 2007
    Gainesville, FL
    We'll know what he has when he releases his findings. No more, no less.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 VIP Member

    60,080
    8,856
    2,358
    Apr 3, 2007
    Hiding behind the flag changes nothing in his case as special prosecutor. And he is still one of the people that let Hillary and Obama get away with Uranium One deal... and all of the pay-to-play corruption that went along with it.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Off-topic Off-topic x 1
  14. orangeblue_coop

    orangeblue_coop GC Hall of Fame

    1,337
    238
    273
    Nov 19, 2016
    Police have a bad rep for "skirting the law or just coming up with mess that evidence doesn't support," which ends up leaving unarmed citizens dead and innocent people behind bars.

    Yet that doesn't stop the same people criticizing the FBI from fully supporting law enforcement.

    Those who say #BackTheBlue should also #BackTheFBI.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. citygator

    citygator Premium Member

    2,808
    513
    423
    Apr 3, 2007
    Charlotte
    You’re confused because people celebrate and trust a guy that used fake injuries to avoid serving but demonize and mistrust a bonafide American hero?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Gator515151

    Gator515151 GC Hall of Fame

    20,066
    354
    883
    Apr 4, 2007
    One only has to look at the story of Ira Hayes to know once a hero not always a hero. Ira was one of the flag raisers at Iwo Jima and died drunk in a gutter from exposure.
     
  17. citygator

    citygator Premium Member

    2,808
    513
    423
    Apr 3, 2007
    Charlotte
    All disgraced veterans like Ollie North and the real Gordon Liddy have to do to get right with cons is to say crazy stuff about libs. Rights all wrongs. Mueller on the other hand simply does his job, says nothing in public, and therefore is a traitor. Conservatism is a sickness to borrow their phrase.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  18. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

    7,723
    823
    433
    Aug 6, 2008
    Tampa
    How does one's personal battle with alcoholism take away from him being recognized as a national hero?

    By all accounts he was a good man who couldn't settle the fame heaped upon him with what he saw during war.

    PTSD in World War II Vets: Direct Relation to Alcoholism & Drug Abuse - Salem-News.Com
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

    6,372
    324
    438
    Apr 8, 2007
    This is the best example you can come with to vilify former soldiers? Sounds like he suffered from depression and PTSD before anyone knew what PTSD was, or how to treat it. The worst thing he did in his life was become a drunk and kill himself with alcohol...

    After this Hayes was unable to hold on to a steady job for a long period, as he had become alcoholic. He was arrested 52 times for alcohol intoxication in public at various places in the country, including Chicago in October 1953.[20]Referring to his alcoholism, he once said: "I was sick. I guess I was about to crack up thinking about all my good buddies. They were better men than me and they're not coming back. Much less back to the White House, like me."[19]Hayes was sober while attending the Marine Corps War Memorial dedication on November 10, 1954 where he was lauded by President Dwight D. Eisenhower as a hero. A reporter there approached Hayes and asked him, "How do you like the pomp and circumstance?" Hayes hung his head and said, "I don't."[21]

    His disquiet about his unwanted fame and his subsequent post-war problems were first recounted in detail by the author William Bradford Huie in "The Outsider," published in 1959 as part of his collection Wolf Whistle and Other Stories. The Outsider was filmed in 1961, was directed by World War II veteran turned film director Delbert Mann and starred Tony Curtis as Hayes.[22] The 2006 film Flags of Our Fathers, directed by Clint Eastwood, suggests that Hayes suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. GatorNorth

    GatorNorth Premium Member Premium Member

    11,335
    717
    688
    Apr 3, 2007
    Atlanta
    What does that have to do with him not being a hero.

    Not following the logic here.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2