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The Supreme Court Is On The Verge Of Killing The Voting Rights Act

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by philnotfil, Oct 4, 2022.

  1. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    Tampa


    And it turns out that more than three million Americans actually don't own a government-issued picture ID. That's according to a recent study by New York University's Brennan Center for Justice.


    Roughly 1 percent of the population
     
  2. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Comparing Vox and Politico to Infowars is beyond dishonest. Roberts's memos from his time in the Reagan DOJ are out there. If you're too lazy to look into the issue, bow out of the conversation.
     
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  3. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Age and legal status greatly reduce that number. Age 15-64, a very rough proxy (15 < 18, 64 < than many voters), is approximately 215 million.

    But 11% or close to it is likely the number of black voters w/out Gov ID (informed speculation), which is why Republican officials target ID to address a nonexistent issue. They can shave some numbers of Democrats, which is the actual motivation, not nonexistent fraud

    What Is The Working Age Population In The U.S.? [2022]: Statistics On Prime Working Age Population In America – Zippia.
     
  4. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    I'm not a fan of racist governments depriving people of color of representation. In Alabama, the vast majority of Black people indeed vote differently than the vast majority of white people. Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act ensures that the whites in power there can't draw maps that deprive Black people of representation in Congress.
     
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  5. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Just to add, I cited my own post so that I didn't have to cut-and-paste (although I did later) that not only was Roberts' history troubling, his reasoning was as well. He invented a species of state sovereignty to say that the plain language of Clause 2 of the 15th Amendment limited Congress' power to pass legislation like the VRA. It was pure speciousness. The plain language of the 15 Amendment says otherwise.

    Then again, I haven't actually reviewed the original text of the amendments at the national archives. And I've only looked at the language in Roberts' opinion which is printed online. And I'm relying upon obviously biased history books to know that the 15th amendment in 1870 was passed after the original founding.

    So I don't know that you can rely upon my position as to the language of the amendment, the year it was ratified, and the language of the Shelby County decision. That could just be liberal bias
     
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  6. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    Define representation?
    Is it only defined as an AA has to represent a minority majority district?
    Is a non AA representative of the district not considered representation if elected to the position?
     
  7. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    It's defined as voters being able to elect a representative of their choice. If Black voters in a majority-Black district elect a white representative, that would be fine under the law. It doesn't require them to elect Black representatives. It only requires that people of color have the opportunity.
     
  8. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    Great, so how is Alabama being racist? Are they denying Blacks the right to run for office? Run Black politicians in every district, let the people decide.
     
  9. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Its not dishonest. They are biased sites.
    Period. How biased is subjective.
    I didnt say he was wrong. I said that in a general sense, you dont "know" something just because a guy upthread said so, or a slanted site says so.

    I never offered an opinion on Roberts opinions.

    As for the laziness comments, as I said previously, the onus is on the person making a claim. Use a non biased source, otherwise I haven't got time to be the TH fact checker on every post.
     
  10. fubar1

    fubar1 Premium Member

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    Umm, more like deflection and fear-mongering via disinformation 101.

    While Alabama is one of only seven states to not allow early voting (Alabama, Connecticut, Indiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire and South Carolina), a DL is not the only valid photo ID you can present to vote. Additionally, absentee ballots are provided under certain criteria.

    Acceptable forms of valid photo ID include:
    • Alabama driver's license (may be expired up to 60 days)
    • Alabama non-driver's ID card (may be expired up to 60 days)
    • Alabama photo voter ID card
    • digital driver's license or non-driver ID issued by the Alabama Law Enforcement Agency
    • photo ID card issued by Alabama or any other state (examples include AL Department of Corrections Release - Temporary ID, AL Movement/Booking Sheet from Prison/Jail System, or a pistol permit)
    • federal government issued ID
    • US passport
    • employee ID card issued by the federal government, the State of Alabama, county, municipality, board or other entity in Alabama
    • student or employee ID issued by a public or private college or university in Alabama
    • US military ID
    • valid tribal ID

    Voters without ID: If you are unable to provide ID, you will be able to vote a provisional ballot. In order for your ballot to be counted, you must provide your ID, including your address and your telephone number, to the board of registrars no later than 5:00 P.M. on the Monday following the election. If you fail to provide ID to the board of registrars by that time, your ballot will not be counted. In addition, voters who do not show valid photo ID at the polls can vote a regular ballot if they are positively identified by two election officials as a voter on the poll list who is eligible to vote and the election officials sign a sworn affidavit.

    A non-drivers ID card can be obtained by presenting the following:
    Non-Driver Identification Card-A citizen of Alabama may apply for a non-driver's identification card at any location where driver testing is done.
    • One document from the primary list which verifies name and date of birth.
    • Social Security card. *
    • Third form of identification from the "primary" or "secondary” lists (required only if primary document is non-photo).
    • $36.25 to purchase non-driver identification card.
    The primary list:
    • Certified U.S. birth certificate issued by an agency designated by state or federal authority.
    • U.S. passport.
    • Alabama identification card.
    • Alabama driver license.
    • Certificate of naturalization.
    • Certificate of citizenship.
    • U.S. certificate of birth abroad.
    • Resident alien card.
    • Valid foreign passport with valid U.S. immigration document

    The secondary list:
    • U.S. state-issued driver license or non-driver ID card.
    • Current international driver license/permit.
    • Marriage license.
    • U.S. armed forces driver license.
    • U.S. military DD-214.
    • Professional license issued by a state or federal agency.
    • Selective Service card.
    • Veterans Administration card.
    • Current medical insurance identification card.
    • U.S. military ID card.
    • ID card issued by school with photo.
    • School enrollment form (DL-1/93).
    • Certified school record:
      • GED certificate;
      • Certificate of graduation.
    • W-2 tax form, along with copy of previous year’s filed forms (tax return).
    • Documents from court of record:
      • Divorce decree;
      • Adoption decree;
      • Name-change decree;
      • Bankruptcy decree.
    • Probation or release documents issued by state or federal department of correction with photo ID card issued by the same authority, or felon ID card issued by the sheriff of the county of the applicant’s release.
    * Social Security Verification:
    • Social Security card (original). A Social Security card is required of all applicants who have been assigned and/or are eligible for the assignment of a Social Security number by the Social Security Administration.
    • U.S. military form DD 214.
    • Medicare/Medicaid identification card (if Social Security number is followed by the letter “A”).
    • W2 tax form.
    A voter may cast an absentee ballot if he or she:
    • EXPECTS TO BE ABSENT FROM THE COUNTY on election day
    • IS ILL OR HAS A PHYSICAL DISABILITY that prevents a trip to the polling place
    • IS PHYSICALLY INCAPACITATED AND WILL NOT BE ABLE TO VOTE IN PERSON BECAUSE THEY CANNOT ACCESS THEIR ASSIGNED POLLING PLACE DUE TO ONE OF THE FOLLOWING DISABILITIES (neurological, musculoskeletal, respiratory (including speech organs), cardiovascular, or other life-altering disorder that affects his or her ability to perform manual tasks, stand for any length of time, walk unassisted, see, hear or speak) AND: A) HE OR SHE IS AN ELDERLY VOTER AGED 65 OR OLDER; OR B) HE OR SHE IS A VOTER WITH A DISABILITY
    • IS A REGISTERED ALABAMA VOTER LIVING OUTSIDE THE COUNTY, such as a member of the armed forces, a voter employed outside the United States, a college student, or a spouse or child of such a person
    • IS AN APPOINTED ELECTION OFFICER OR POLL WATCHER at a polling place other than his or her regular polling place
    • EXPECTS TO WORK A REQUIRED SHIFT, 10-HOURS OR MORE, that coincides with polling hours
    • IS A CAREGIVER for a family member to the second degree of kinship by affinity or consanguinity and the family member is confined to his or her home
    • IS CURRENTLY INCARCERATED in prison or jail and has not been convicted of a felony involving moral turpitude.
    As you can plainly see, it is not any kind of tall hill to climb to register to vote or cast your ballot in the state of Alabama. It certainly is not mass ballot mailing, ballot harvesting or any other kind of nonsense but it is not difficult to register and cast your vote. As mentioned, any statement to the contrary is simply tripe and disinformation.
     
  11. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    You've clearly missed the point. The issue isn't the ability to run for office. It's actual representation. Drawing maps in a way to prevent Black voters from being able to elect representatives of their choice is racist. We have this law because during the Jim Crow era, racist states did everything they could to prevent people of color, particularly Black people, from having any representation in government. You seem to not appreciate how gerrymandering works.
     
  12. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Is The Atlantic sufficient for you?
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazin...berts-supreme-court-voting-rights-act/671239/
     
  13. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    If a person makes a plausible assertion, reasonable courses of action would be:

    - google it if you aren’t familiar with it, then discuss, refute etc
    - ignore it
    - comment on it
    - politely asking for a source if it isn’t obvious.

    Just making a generic statement that what people post may not be true is just a waste of text, it is lazy and it is passive aggressive. If I type out a post I don’t necessarily provide a link to everything I say, and it isn’t reasonable to expect people to.

    Then following up with a “your source is biased”, if it is a reasonable mainstream source, isn’t an argument in itself either. It’s as if we can only present acceptable right wing sources.
     
  14. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Only if you count the children and round down. Regardless, thank you for providing that. And it does somewhat dispute the notion that you can't function without one, as it seems more than 3 million people are doing it.
     
  15. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Are you unfamiliar with how gerrymandering works?
     
  16. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    I understand gerrymandering. It doesn't deny black voters a choice because if their candidate runs they can vote for them. What gerrymandering does is it doesn't guarantee a win for the opposite political party. But a win is there if the candidate can sway enough votes.

    So if a district is gerrymandered conservative and heavily white and a black conservative running wins or gerrymandered liberal and heavily black and a non black liberal wins, do you still consider it racist?

    FTR I don't support gerrymandering, districts should be based solely on population. Not race, income or political affiliation. Let the best candidate win.
     
  17. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    Gerrymandering absolutely guarantees a win for a political party if the district is drawn in a way to make it uncompetitive. You're living in a fantasy world if you believe otherwise. Alabama's districts are:
    R+32
    R+34
    R+39
    R+65
    R+32
    R+36
    D+29
    What Redistricting Looks Like In Every State - Alabama

    There isn't a single district a candidate from the opposite political party has any chance of winning.
     
  18. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    But is it racist as you imply, If a black/non white conservative runs and wins in those districts?
    I may be reading you wrong but you seem to be implying that if a black democrat isn't guaranteed a win then it's racist.
     
  19. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

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    You're misunderstanding my point. It's about people of color being able to elect their candidate of choice. For example, a majority Latino district in South Florida might elect a Republican. The point is that community needs to be given the opportunity to choose THEIR representation. Drawing maps in a way pack and crack them in order to diminish their ability to elect their representation is racist.

    It doesn't matter what race or ethnicity the person they choose is. It's about them having the power to make that choice. Drawing maps in a way so that white people get to disproportionately choose the representation in the state and Black people disproportionately don't get to choose representation in the state is racist.
     
  20. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

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    Then we agree that maps should be drawn based on population not political affiliation or racial makeup.
    Let the best candidate be elected in each district.
    Any other way is inherently racist for all groups.
     
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