Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by lacuna, Feb 21, 2020.
Not gonna lie. I stopped reading here.
It's not like they stayed and changed their views on Trump. They all left because they felt they were being treated unfairly here.
Means very, very rarely justify the end where “means” means resorting to acts offensive to the constitution or our morality.
I don't really know. And while I am admittedly biased to some extent, I don't see this as equal. I'm reminded daily of what one of my conservative-libertarian friends--a retired Captain/naval aviator--said to me before the 2016 election. We were debating back and forth and he came out and said he'd like to see Trump demolish the entire government. When I called him out on this he said he was serious. Liberals needed to be crushed and the whole thing needed to be demolished and rebuilt (I saved this chain of comments).
It woud be easy to say that he doesn't really mean it, but I cannot accept that. These aren't folks who are simply partisan, they've literally stopped believing in or wanting small l liberal democracy (as wgb suggested on another thread). To that end, there is no reasoning with this type of person--not from the left--because they remain closed to the problem. It must come from influential right-leaning political and thought leaders, but the fair-minded cons/pubs among them have been abandoned or are being forced out of the party altogether.
You speak for me.
Man - y'all making me feel like some kind of Trump supporter defender. Gonna go shower after this thread.
I'm not sure how you can know that. Have they all PM'ed you and explained their reasons? And if so, are you sure you can take those stated reasons as facts? No chance they're embarrassed by their vote but too proud to admit it - so it's the libby Mods' fault? That sort of blame-reasoning sounds familiar.
People that still post here are on the other site too its not a big mystery where they went, and you can check out their posts if you want to go down that alley.
Thing is, I honestly do not like posting such comments. I'd much rather discuss the ins and outs of various issues; or crack funny. But I don't see any other way of fighting back against the efforts to prop up this vulgarian without pointing out the terrible and irredeemable qualities he embodies, and regularly demonstrates for the world to see.
Ad hom while Rome burns is appropriate.
Easier said than done with the precedents set and the degree of polarization in the electorate.
Whatever it takes to win is what dominates political thought and rationalization of abuses of power.
It's a well known fact here that many of the conservatives left in protest. There was a long thread all about it recently.
I went over there recently and saw a lot of familiar avatars. They are much worse now than they were because they aren't being moderated over there. It was creepy.
Agree its not equally apparent on both sides at this time.
Although I think with the right scenario it could be as bad on the Dem side.
Also agree it will take strong effective leadership among conservatives/Pubs to pull the party out of this abyss.
We have a neighbor in NC. A college grad. Worked 40 years for the National Park Service and now had a nice pension and full medical coverage, i.e., the beneficiary of what some would call a “socialist” system. Very intelligent, good sense of humor, easy to talk to. Went to a Baptist college and is very religious. Nothing can convince him Trump is a threat to the Republic. Why? Because of an irrational fear of immigrants and adamant opposition to abortion. Trump has weaponized his fears and oppositions.
So much for dialogue, huh?
Alright then. Not too proud to say that maybe I shouldn't have used that handful of posters to support my points - they were of the lock-her-up crowd to begin with...
The earth is flat, 8,000 years old, and created in 6 days.
Would you like to talk about evolution with me?
We've already established there will be segments of the fringe beyond rapprochement. It is very difficult, if not impossible to have meaningful dialogue with such entrenched ideologues as their beliefs aren't grounded in reality. To say there was no polarization before Trump would put you in that category. I know you're not actually in that category - but as this is a thread on the effects of political polarization - I thought I'd point yours out.
It wasn't meant to be (and clearly isn't) the entirety of our conversation here.
I agree with your post, but I'm guessing you are sorry you even bothered to make it...or were you just interested in seeing how big a fire you could set?
Perhaps this will help: polarization is a term which for me bespeaks a condition several magnitudes greater than disagreement. My point was that Trump took disagreements and frustration and/or anger and weaponized it and polarized the country.
Fair enough. And I agree that some in our country have changed their mind on Trump. But many are more into him than ever. It's become a cult of personality.
I'm going to agree with exiled here. When Obama came right out and told republicans they get to "sit in the back of the bus" you lay the foundation for further polarization. These are all systematic problems, not individualized problems. Nearly every politician today puts party over country. Most voters follow suit