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The issue isn't the transfers

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by channingcrowderhungry, Mar 30, 2021.

  1. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall GC Hall of Fame

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    All that and yet... Florida almost made the Sweet 16 without its best player. You guys are so busy complaining that you are ignoring the most obvious fact. Take away any teams best player and they usually are terrible. Florida was still competitive.

    That said, I’ve said several times here that criticizing Coach White’s recruiting is fair game, and the right conversation to have if you want him gone. It’s all this X’s and O’s stuff that I disagree with. #1 seed Michigan just lost to #11 seed UCLA. Nothing is guaranteed in college basketball. It’s one of the hardest sports to predict, which is why March Madness is so exciting.
     
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  2. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Murph nice post and I agree.

    But as is my practice I like to quote these stats:
    6 years around a .625 or .630 winning %. Bottom line, that's who we are.

    While comparing to Billy is unfair CMW needs to "pick up" whatever is wrong and get that % up. Regrettably, unless Magic and Bird are reincarnated and come through the portal as 19 year olds, I see next year as being WORSE than this year. Hope I'm wrong. But another 18 - 13 regular season and 2nd round dance exit is not going to help CMW much IMO.

    We shall see.
     
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  3. 90Gator

    90Gator Premium Member

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    Great thread to read through, thank you!
     
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  4. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    Officially 0.621 winning %. Which is second best in school history, and significantly better than the third place guy (Lon Kruger at 0.565).

    I think we can do better, but to say Florida is better than that is to deny our history. Billy Donovan was better than that, but he wasn't Florida. It may be that we really are a 0.621 winning % kind of school. I would like for us to be better than that, but maybe this is who we are.

    Edit: Our women's basketball success since Carol Ross (with a better winning % than Mike White) left doesn't fill me with hope about the future success of our men's team. Maybe our reality is every two or three coaches we get a coach of the year caliber coach who takes us to the top of the conference, but we spend 10-15 years in between being above average.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
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  5. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall GC Hall of Fame

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    I understand your point of view. My counter argument to it, though, is that in college basketball you need to keep hanging around making the tournament and advancing as far as you can each year with the guys you have. Eventually, if everything lines up perfectly, you’ll get a ring. Just need to stay competitive enough to attract talent. Look at some of the top programs right now... Gonzaga, Michigan, Baylor, and Illinois. None of those are blue blood programs and they all were not that relevant just a few years ago. I think only Michigan has a ring out of all of them and that was decades ago. Building programs takes time, and even if you do it you will have an off year or stretches of off years. That’s why in college basketball, you need a principled coach with good character and you ride with them if you are at least still making the tournament regularly. That in itself is difficult and commendable. There’s no secret sauce or easy path. College Basketball is a different beast. Now... if we miss the tournament in consecutive years, then I think we need to start looking for a new coach,
     
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  6. ofmgator

    ofmgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Mike White is not the problem! He's had some players who were good recruits but played like they were still in HS .Dribble into the bigs under the basket, dribble too much, take off balance shots etc. The correct way to play a team game can't be drilled into young players right away. Then you have the disaster called the "Transfer Portal" which allows guys to go to another school if they're not getting all the PT they think they deserve. Loyalty is a thing of the past and disloyal fans are part of it.
     
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  7. ApexNC

    ApexNC GC Hall of Fame

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    Without the transfer portal, I'm not sure Coach White is still our coach. He has done spectacularly there. Even with the loss of Nembhard (and now Locke), we've come out WAY ahead in getting transfers under Coach White. In fact, working the portal, IMO, is maybe the strongest asset Coach White brings to the job.
     
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  8. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    But this flies in the face of Chiozza's improvement from JR to SR years (slightly more productive per minute, but also applied to a 36% increase in playing time). We were also pretty pumped up about our chances in Chiozza's SR season going into it. Ranked as high as #5/#6 after strong performances against Gonzaga and Duke at a neutral site. I don't think any of us were sour on that team until they were obliterated at home by our feather headed friends to the NW.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
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  9. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    The concerning part is where are we headed:

    First three years: 69-37, .651 winning percentage, 34-20 SEC, .630%, 2 of 3 top 3 finishes in conference play, 4-2 NCAA Tournament (Elite Eight)
    Last three years: 54-38, .587 winning percentage, 29-23 SEC, .558%, best finish T4th, 2-2 NCAA Tournament

    I'm excited to see what next year has in store for us, but I think the lack of patience that fans are having with Mike White is completely understandable all things considered.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
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  10. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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    I don’t think it flies in the face of anything. Some payers have the skillset and mindset to carry at team and improve in a larger role.
    Other players do not.
    I think Cheese and KA are perfect examples of such difference.
     
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  11. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    So you are saying it's the individual, and not the team around the individual? I agree! Allen's role didn't increase nearly as much as Chiozza's.

    Tell me you weren't seriously high on that team after their Portland trip. Actually, don't, I won't believe you!

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
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  12. gatorade

    gatorade Senior

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    Slice it anyway you want but the portal is now the reality, hence the 100's of players that are now in. What completely rubs me the wrong way is that prior to this year (and last year, if not mistaken) is that all of those players opted to transfer out of the program. Completely different scenarios two years ago vs now.

    Why did all of them leave? Lack of development or talent, sure. Either way it is an indication of MW ability to recruit, evaluate/develop. From a macro level of the program, how many people feel there are signs of optimism/positive forward momentum progress?
     
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  13. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Hi rade, last para really nails it IMO.
    So we wait and hope Mike can rebuild this thing (And YES, I MEAN RE-BUILD).

    Hope it works, A Mike White that returns UF to a top 4 in the SEC, 20 game REGULAR SEASON win total and a bit more success in the dance is what MOST of us want, including ME.

    Just hope two seasons from now we are not kicking this same can down the road.
     
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  14. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall GC Hall of Fame

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    Good question. It’s kind of a chicken or the egg scenario. Did we not reach our potential because these players are not committed to excellence, or are we not excellent because the players lack potential? All I can say is this... if you don’t want to be here, you can/should leave. It doesn’t help any team to have players who aren’t 100% on board. I think a lot of players have delusions of grandeur thinking they are going to magically develop or become NBA prospects if they move to another school. Nembhard’s move to me was front running. He saw a chance to join a super team and took it. I don’t blame him, but let’s call it what it was. He would have been a pro prospect here or at Gonzaga. He didn’t need to transfer to make it to the NBA.

    I am fine with the transfers because players who aren’t on board are leaving. Whether their reasons are valid or not, we can’t win it all like that. Let’s get some fresh guys in who want to be here and I have confidence that the coaching staff will get them playing well.
     
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  15. antny1

    antny1 GC Hall of Fame

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    I acknowledge the challenges of this seasons with KJ being far and away number 1. I expected worse out of the team going forward without him but was surprised we were as competitive as we were. With that said I think the frustrations are that roster and season challenges aside ...we once again limped into post season and blew a lead against an inferior opponent. This speaks to situational coaching more than talent deficiencies. White has been very Zookish in that it doesn't seem to matter what we put on the floor, we either play up or play down and don't seem to have any real growth or regression for that matter. We just Bob up and down in the water.
     
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  16. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall GC Hall of Fame

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    How many other teams lost to inferior opponents in the tournament? The answer is a lot. Including the #2 seeded Ohio St. which lost to the exact same team we lost to. What about Michigan? Illinois? The problem is a lot of people believe that if you have Better talent and are coached to perfection that guarantees a win. It doesn’t in any sport, but the NCAA tournament is the most dynamic of all playoffs. You can’t just say we would have won if not for the coach.
     
  17. garygator27

    garygator27 GC Legend

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    It wasn’t just that they lost, it was how the game was lost, specifically the decision to slow the game down on offense because CMW thought his team was tired. If that decision had not been made and ORU just outplayed Florida straight up, without the perceived self inflicted damage of dribbling out the shot clock, I think your point is received better.
     
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  18. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall GC Hall of Fame

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    Analyze any loss and you can find something to blame the coach on. No loss is good. Show me a game where you say well they lost, but nobody is at fault. You only feel that way because you are a fan of the Gators. Other people just watched the game and thought the Gators lost or ORU won.
     
  19. tommyvee

    tommyvee GC Hall of Fame

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    I thought this year’s team was one of the most athletic we’ve had. Somehow, they never gelled and no one stepped up in the leadership department after Key went down. That coupled with turnovers and poor free throw shooting down the stretch were what did us in. I’ll give CMW a pass this year since he did manage to keep the team together after losing our best player in an unprecedented way.
     
  20. wingtee

    wingtee GC Hall of Fame

    Check the portal. Lots of waste