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The Head Coach’s Importance

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by murphree_hall, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall GC Hall of Fame

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    Ok, look. A lot of you are confused on what is important about a head coach. Should they be good in the X’s and O’s? Yes, they should. But what is really important is bringing in talent and keeping them disciplined on and off the court. Establishing the right culture is also key.

    A head coach should make sure to “do no harm”. If they have great players, they need to play to their strengths and not try to force them into a system they predetermined. That is one of the major mistakes they make... not adapting to personnel.

    As great as Nick Saban has been... do you think he’d be winning championships at UF with the exact same roster as Dan Mullen? Do you think Dan Mullen would lose with Bama’s roster? Is Steve Kerr a basketball genius, or did he have Steph, KD, Klay, and Draymond? It’s primarily the talent that wins games, not the coaching.

    I’ve been on good teams and bad teams in my life. With great talent, the team basically runs itself. It’s completely different when your players are just better. The coach needs to be a leader, mentor, and a great recruiter above all.
     
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  2. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    Let’s talk talent. In my opinion, Tre Mann is more talented than was Taurean Green. Noah Locke is more talented than was Lee Humphrey. Scottie Lewis is more talented than was Corey Brewer. Tyree Appleby is more talented than was Walter Hodge. Colin Castleton probably is more talented than was Joakim Noah. Al Horford obviously is way more talented than our current power forward, but Mike White pushed Gorjok Gak out of the program after he had regained his health, and, based on Gak’s season this year, he is a very talented big man who could have given us the double low-post presence of Noah and Horford. So why did one team win the national title, and the other team struggled to win a first round NCAA game against a team that won one game in its last 40 or so days? I’ll let you and others answer the question. I have been consistent in my opinion of our coach.
     
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  3. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall GC Hall of Fame

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    You haven’t been right about Glover so far, so it’s not like your talent assessments are always spot on. The 04’s would blow out this team by 30 and it’s not because of coaching.
     
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  4. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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    wow.
    I suspect you will be taken to task on a few of these.
     
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  5. ColoradoNoVaGator

    ColoradoNoVaGator Premium Member

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    I would agree with you at the professional level.

    But at the college level player development is key for the vast, vast majority of your players. You're not just winding them up and letting them go.
     
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  6. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall GC Hall of Fame

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    It’s the same, brother. Even at the high school level. It’s hard to explain. When you play with a bunch of other guys who are good, it’s almost like you don’t even need a coach. Everyone knows where to be instinctively. Buckets are made when they are supposed to be made. Defensive rotations are seamless. It’s like dancing with a great dance partner. A coach cannot fill talent gaps.
     
  7. Matherly87

    Matherly87 GC Hall of Fame

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    Please clarify as to what point in their basketball playing days. Are we talking high school ability, after two years of college, or their overall college achievements?
     
  8. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    northern MN
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall GC Hall of Fame

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    Yeah... that was definitely a hot take.
     
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  10. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    I am talking about talent. In 2006 and 2007, everyone of the starting players on the championship teams were better college basketball players than everyone on the current gator team. That’s coaching.
     
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  11. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops GC Columnist VIP Member

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    I’m sorry - but this is a bizarre take.
    Those were incredibly good basketball players. They were beating Walsh, Roberson and Lee in scrimmages very early on.
    Sure, they were aided by coaching, but if Billy could coach up the transformation you are suggesting .... he’d have won a title every season. That was a very unique and special group of very, very good players.
     
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  12. GatorPlanet

    GatorPlanet GC Hall of Fame

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    Not a knock on Locke, but...
    Lee Humphrey > Noah Locke.
     
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  13. FranceGator

    FranceGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I like this thread @murphree_hall

    I think what makes a good head coach is: getting the most out of the players, individually and collectively. How close to ideal performance can you get? It's art, not science.

    I think that then applies to the coaching staff. The head coach needs to be a multiplier, and amplifier. It then applies on down to recruiting and administration.

    What makes a coach good at squeezing every drop of juice out of the orange? I think these days, screaming isn't it. You have to be someone who players think is invested in them. Not a pushover. But also, not a fraud.

    I think Coach White has this part nailed. I think he hasn't yet figured out how to apply it, at least not consistently. Stated differently, I think we often underperform. But I think he can figure it out, as I think it can be an acquired skill. I confess that might be wishcasting.
     
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  14. FranceGator

    FranceGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Agreed. It wouldn't surprise me if Noah, Horford, and Brewer have a notable percentage of "NBA games started by UF grads."
     
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  15. fda92045

    fda92045 GC Hall of Fame

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    Tre Mann is more talented than Green but they are completely different players on completely different teams.

    The rest of those, no way. Perfect combo of Billy finding the right players that fit his system, and players executing
     
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  16. Matherly87

    Matherly87 GC Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for that clarification. I get the frustration with CMW but not the talent.

    As to Noah Locke - I recall as a freshman he could hit some amazing shots in practice from the videos that were shared and many times in games. You could see the off balance threes, draining them while sliding left or right in the air. Yes that's talent that he has not shown in the last two years at least not on a consistent basis. But Lee Humphery had that ability as well, but also set his feet better, and as CBD said he worked harder than anyone on the team to make himself better, offensively and defensively. Yes that's coaching but its also the player's effort. Fact is Lee could always shoot lights out in HS and at UF, he just got the chance to show it more in 06 and 07 after Roberson and Walsh moved on. That was a coaching problem and a player problem as well with Walsh and Roberson. Point is Humphery was more talented than Locke is now, when he got here and by making himself better.

    As to Tre Mann - I'll agree with you on this one since Mann is a leader on this team. But Taurean Green and Tre Mann are two different players. Mann is a scoring leader and Green was more of a facilitator for the talent around him. Tre gets his points throughout the game where Green got many of his points down the stretch at the free throw line on a team that was usually way ahead. But yes I agree Mann has more talent.

    As to Scottie Lewis - He is no comparison to Corey Brewer. Don't let the recruiting rankings fool you. Yes you might say Lewis had more potential due to his ranking but that's a farce. I fell into that trap myself on Lewis. Brewer started as a freshman in 05 as well. Brewer came here playing better sound D, jumping higher, scoring better and more consistent. He didn't get the nickname Spiderman for nothing. About the only player in Gator history at the 3 that was better is Mike Miller IMHO.

    As to Colin Castleton - Comparing him to probably better than Joakim Noah is one of the craziest things I've ever read that you submitted. Let's think back, Castleton was a 4 star prospect out of Deland that got some attention in high school and settled on Michigan where he played very little with better players on the team. So he had to transfer to get his chance at Florida where he has shined. Good for him but then you have to concede it was CMW coaching that made him better here at Florida based on his perceived ability. Personally I think he was fairly good at Deland but not surprised that Florida passed when they signed Payne that same year. In the end it worked out for CC. That said Joakim was similar in HS and didn't play much as a freshman, much of which he had mono as a freshman and David Lee was the stand out. But what Joakim did as a Soph and Jr is a thing of Gator legend that has never been compared. Yes that's coaching as well but both them improved by putting in the effort. Joakim as a junior or sophomore could eat CC's lunch any day up and down the court on offense or defense.
     
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  17. gatorstevelp

    gatorstevelp Premium Member

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    Put down whatever it is you are on......dang I used to enjoy your posts
     
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  18. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    You had me until Castleton more talented than Noah. LOLNO. The Lewis to Brewer compare is probably a huge stretch as well, though I've thought White has drastically failed to utilize Lewis (though maybe last game was a breakout that hopefully puts him back on track). Not sure who is responsible for his lack of development on offense, ive felt for awhile we need to get him going by getting him going downhill and giving him opportunities to finish around the basket. Last game he really got going when he hit a 3, but he also had some nice drives around the basket.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
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  19. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Not necessarily fair. Humphrey is a shooter. Locke is a shooter. He would have THRIVED in BD's system. Both are sort of limited in what they do other than knocking in 3's. Locke has a little floater going to keep defenses honest, don't remember Humphrey doing much of that. But then Humphrey was probably more of a gritty defender. But these are minor quibbles, both guys are primarly 3 point shooters. Humphrey a little better, sure, but I think Locke is hurt by comparing to the system he's in where there are very few assists. How many of Humphrey's 3's were off assists and great ball movement? Almost all of them! Locke is lucky if he gets an open look off a rebound or off 1 pass. It's not generated by good ball movement like BD's system was.

    Obviously Humphrey had many more opportunities to hit big shots, because he was in a system that generated open shots through fantastic ball movement, probably didn't hurt (similar to T. Green) that his front court was 3 lottery picks. Think those guys attracted some double team attention? The success of the teams he was on gave him opportunities all the way through 2 championships... and yes, he knocked them down in those big situations.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
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  20. GatorLurker

    GatorLurker GC Hall of Fame

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