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The Government Just Admitted It Doesn't Really Try to Collect Rich People's Taxes

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by philnotfil, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    This again?

    In no particular order-
    People will generally make better decisions for themselves than the government will
    Capitalism is the best economic system available
    The Constitution was inspired of God and should be a guiding light in determining the roles of government, the central role of government is to preserve freedoms
    Faith and Family are priorities, the family is the fundamental unit of a strong country

    Is there a particular position that you've seen me take that seems like it doesn't square with conservative principles?
     
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  2. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes.

    It's the fact that Phil seemed to note this conspiracy that the IRS specifically only doesn't want to enforce the law on rich folks in the thread title that's strange for a conservative.

    Enforce the law as written is a conservative point.

    Eat the rich is a leftist one..
     
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  3. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Conservativism is the idea that the are in-groups that the law protects but does not bind, and out-groups who the law binds but does not protect. That's it. Its the only idea conservatives have ever had and ever will. Everything else is simply window dressing.
     
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  4. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    I'd say you'd have to be more specific than that to be conservative.

    Those are such broad points to consider yourself conservative they can't really be tied to any policy.

    1. People make better decisions for themselves than government will. That's a general statement. I don't think you support shopowner rights to serve/not serve whomever they want. You seem to support taxing the rich and regulating businesses. So I just don't see the evidence for that.
    2. Support of Capitalism may be conservative but again, more information is needed. You support Capitalism, yet you support significantly higher safety nets and higher taxes that Democrats are proposing. You can still be pro-Capitalism and be a Democrat.
    3. Constitution should be a guiding principle. Okay. But what does the Constitution mean? Does it mean the 2nd Amendment only applies to militias? If that's what you believe, not very conservative.
    4. The family is the fundamental unit of a strong country. Support of BLM who opposes the nuclear family is a pretty decent indicator of opposition towards such values. Crediting problems in the Black Community to systemic racism when they have a single motherhood rate of 70% seems to be an indicator against such values and an explicit endorsement of a false democratic narrative that marginalized communities are being significantly held down by racism in America in 2021.
     
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  5. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    Sure, what specific policy do you want an opinion on?

    Yes, that is kind of how principles work, they are general statements that we can then apply to specific situations. I don't support the right of shopowners to discriminate based on race, gender, religion, disability, or sexual orientation. I support everyone paying their fair share, I very much support eliminating tax dodges that only the rich can benefit from. I believe that a minimal level of regulation is required because information asymmetries destroy markets, I think our current levels of regulation are probably a little too high, but wouldn't support removing regulation altogether.

    You present these other things (which aren't accurate reflections of my positions) as if they are in opposition to Capitalism, but they are orthogonal to Capitalism.

    The Constitution is frustratingly vague, it can be interpreted to mean many things. But I find it worrisome that some Americans want to start with what they want it to say and then work back from there to find an interpretation that fits what they already believe rather than starting with what the Constitution says and working from there.

    Okay. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but rock on.
     
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  6. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Just give me like a handful of things Republicans have done in the last 5 years that you support and I'll be satisfied.
     
  7. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    1. Lost the senate
    2. Lost the presidential election
     
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  8. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    Now you are conflating Republicans with conservatives ;)

    Under the Trump administration we got a bunch of new conservative judges confirmed, The SECURE act was a good one (making it easier for small businesses to offer retirement plans for employees). Streamlining the process for approving over the counter drugs was a good step. Getting rid of the tax on medical devices was great. Doubling the child tax credit is a great thing for families. I think most of the rollback of Dodd-Frank was good. Allowing terminally ill patients to try experimental treatments was great. I think a lot of good things were done for our service members, both active duty and retired. Expanding career and technical education was good. Criminal justice reform was good.

    My personal favorites were the attempts to make medical pricing information more accessible, both with legislation about drug prices and new rules and regulations requiring insurers and medical providers to publish medical costs. Markets require both parties to have equal information, but consumers haven't had real information about medical costs. The insurers and medical providers have a vested interest in making their pricing opaque, and they have more lobbyists than we the people, so I expect a lot of that get pushed back, but it is a good start and moves us in the right direction.
     
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  9. archigator_96

    archigator_96 GC Legend

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    Paid over 6 figures in taxes, no cheating, and happy to do it. I look at it this way, I think we live in the best country in the world, warts and all, and if that's what it takes for me to do my part then fine.

    I hate the fact that the government isn't the most efficient with their money and wish they would do better but don't like the alternative to starve the government either.
     
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  10. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    I'll take your word for it. This works for me.
     
  11. l_boy

    l_boy GC Hall of Fame

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    It is possible to be the worst businessman on the planet and a tax cheat at the same time. Trump can walk and chew gum at the same time, although very slowly with the occasional stumble
     
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  12. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    If I had a dollar for every time I personally witnessed that I'd be rich. What I discovered in my career is that the worst businessmen cheat on their taxes as a normal business practice. Because they suck at being legit businessmen. And I saw it during my normal course of business for decades. The orange one is just so freaking obvious.
     
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  13. cluckugator

    cluckugator VIP Member

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    I feel you. Had to pay that much on just illiquid, write ups for LLCs. If they do change the tax laws and those positions become liquid, the 2020 write up will save me a ton of money. Wasn’t my decision either way though...

    And most wealthy people aren’t terrible and pay what they owe, but not more than they owe. Tax code needs to be simplified... Even if it goes up.
     
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  14. metalcoater

    metalcoater GC Hall of Fame

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    Maybe, the tax attorneys working for these fraudsters know the the tax code.
     
  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    It doesn't make sense. Cutting funding of the IRS should still allow the IRS to prioritize cases and audit the ones that are most likely to yield the biggest return on the time invested in the audit. Why would the IRS continue to audit lower income people while leaving wealthy people alone? Are their bonuses determined by number of prosecutions, and not money recovered?

    I'm guessing that republicans cut IRS funding to roll back all the hiring that was done under Obama to support Obamacare.
     
  16. gatorknights

    gatorknights GC Hall of Fame

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    And how to work around and abuse said tax code. I have personally witnessed it many times with my own two eyes as a professional in the industry. So clearly I have no idea what I'm talking about. :rolleyes::rolleyes: SMFH.
     
  17. l_boy

    l_boy GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm sorry this whole post is ridiculous. The IRS doesn't crack down on most high income people because they are political donors. Republicans intentionally starve the IRS so they can't easily pursue their constituency.

    The IRS Data Book Tells A Story of Shrinking Staff, Fewer Audits, and Less Customer Service.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/11/budget-cuts-shrink-the-irs-and-corporations-are-the-big-winners.html

    https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/19dbs06t31cs.xlsx
     
  18. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    Lower income people don't fight the IRS. Wealthy people hire high powered tax lawyers who know as much or more about tax law as the guys working for the IRS (many of them used to work for the IRS), and drag things out for years. Sometimes past the employment of the person who started the case and it doesn't get handed off properly and everything falls apart.
     
  19. PD

    PD GC Columnist VIP Member

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    The zenith of white privilege.
     
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  20. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/03/26/wealthy-tax-evasion/