The coming Democratic civil war

It'll be interesting to see if the voters are interested in that stuff. IMO, if the economy is booming, it'll be a further validation of Trump era policy, the GOP could run almost anyone and win.

 

Past due. If it came sooner, no orange god

 

Let's see... the old guard with Gavin Newsome trying to "triangulate" to the center going up against AOC/Bernie/Crockett? Lol. It will be all be moot point, because we're not going back to the Dems in 2028.

 

Meh. You have populist billionaires convincing working class voters that voting for a party whose policies shit on them but demonizes brown, gay, and the educated for all their ills is in their best interest. "You'll be broke but not woke!" I think the working class deserves the suffering it has coming from the GOP. The Democratic Party should continue to outline its better policies until the working class realizes the con. Wont be long.

 

Carville was suggesting the D's just kick the far-left wing to the curb and let it see if it can function on its own/as a sometimes partner (coalition). I can't say he's wrong. Thanks to MAGA idiocy, traditional conservatism is now seen as "liberal" so you may as well move the party to the right, or try to pull a Macron and galvanize the middle.

 

Agreed. It's why Pete Hegseth was appointed to and holds the job he does. Happy days for you Rick. Turning the military on the hated liberals. But will they do it? That will be the difference between you getting the Christo-Fascist state you crave so much or something more akin to the treatment of Marie Antionette in the French Revolution.

We'll see. . .

 

So many unneeded insults across this board. It’s sad.
Both parties are going to go into trench warfare within the party itself. Dems have to decide what path to follow.. the far left wing liberal agenda or a more moderate centerline approach. The far left wing ideology has not done well at the polls when it counted. I personally believe it’s partly because the Dems have so many fringe eliminates they pander too that they can’t keep them all in one coalition in any reasonable way.
The repubs will have to right the ship after Trump and decide how much influence his coalition will carry. Do the repubs try to swing back into normalcy? Trump has done some very good things.. and then throws in insane decisions. Can the repubs hold on to the planks that make sense and build a strong base and castoff the planks that are just nuts so? If so who takes up those reins. It won’t be DeSantis. Does Rubio try again? Bergman? Some relatively unknown who will be groomed the next few years?
Going to be interesting to say the least. Maybe both parties (and their supporters) can come back to the middle, put the country ahead of party and make some strides forward. Maybe both parties will be able to admit the other side has some decent ideas instead of just attacking the other side as evil that must be killed.
I doubt it but can hope.

 

So we are back to the "What is the Matter with Kansas?" theory? How was that been working out the past 20 years?

 

The dems could just be smarter about it too.
Biden’s first day he signed an EO allowing transgender participation in high school sports. Wildly unpopular and wildly unnecessary. Only a handful of people supported it and even fewer were clamoring for it. Don’t go around yelling “defund the police” or make wildly untrue claims about their efficacy. Don’t turn a blind eye or even defend them when Israel protests turn violent or completely counterproductive. Run on actual ideas that impact average American lives and not “the other guy is crazy and we wanna give everyone a trophy”.
It’s telling that in spite of the absolute world ending crazy coming out of the right, the dems were viewed as the more extreme party. That should in itself demand an immediate reset. But not sure as a party they are capable of it. What will happen is that there will be another Obama Trump style candidate who wins despite what the party thinks it wants and forces change. Just don’t see who that would be right now.

 

Can you list three good things? Not to debate or argue (I can't vouch for anyone else), I would just like to get some context for where you're coming from.

Similarly, can you list three good things (or decent ideas) from the Dems?

 

If a consequence of maga is it moves the democrats to the right….we got ourselves a big win for Americans.

 

Won't matter because MAGA isn't going away without violence. Think hard. There is a clear-cut reason Pete Hegseth is SOD. Because even card-carrying conservatives like Mark Esper won't cross certain lines. But you can be sure feckless losers like Hegseth will.

It's coming. We'll see how it turns out. At current rate, you probably get that Christo-Fascist dictatorship. . . er, "republic" you and the rest of MAGA so crave. Or maybe I get my French Revolution scenario with MAGA as the main course. We'll see, but I don't see any other alternative now. It's going to happen. Be ready.

 

It has been herding cats for a while. Special interest and fringe groups only interested in their specific agenda, without an overall unifying core. While at the same time, trying to pander to every group, even while alienating a chunk of the old base. I don’t think Maga has been enough to bring all the cats in to be harnessed to pull a load. They either protest or go home. Do they turn out to vote? Not usually.

Ymmv, go Gators

 

Alright, I'm going to take a stab.
Trump
1. China tariffs. Especially first term as it broke the "China's the Big Bad Wolf" fever dream and got us pointed in the right direction. But, like all things Trump, it was halfassed.
2. Exposing the media for the frauds they are (both sides, really). Probably best moving forward that we see them for who they really are, profit-chasing scumbags who gave up on real journalism a long time ago in an attempt to chase viewership.
3. . . . I got nothing.

Biden
1. Kept Trumps' China tarriffs, added more, and all targeted in such a way as to reduce pain for us while while weaning us away from them generally (and especially on strategically important goods).
2. Chips act. Nuff said. How could you have a problem with this? Trump hates it because Biden beat him to the punch as this is the kind of bill he would have loved and wanted his name all over.
3. BBB/IRA. Generally good, address the infrastructure spending Trump was not able to get through. Not a fan of the green mandates, but overall I like the thought. Again, green mandates aside, this is the exact kind of thing Trump would have pushed and attached his name to in the first term. But, since it's Biden, it's bad. 3yo thinking.

 

Hopefully the eye roll is correct. But I don't see it.

Maybe you can explain Pete Hegseth over, say, Bridge Colby (who works under Hegseth) who is 30x more qualified and literally wrote the book about pivoting away from Europe to Asia? Answer: Colby is a patriot like Esper and won't cross certain lines (like ordering troops to fire on protestors). Unlike MAGA, he cares more about America than MAGA.

 

Always refreshing to hear your version of "both sides."

Sorry, but only one political party is effectively functioning as a criminal organization. Similarly, only one side puts "party ahead of country."

Or did you miss when there was a sitting President who tried to overturn an election? And the riot and attack on our Capitol he incited. Did you fail to notice which party clearly witnessed these crimes and others ..... and selected him as their POTUS nominee, and subsequently as de facto dictator of crimes, corruption and criminality?

None of these things are present in the Democratic party - no dominant theme of corruption and criminality, no de facto dictator of the party insisting all allow him to steal, and certainly no attack on elections or our very government.

So no - not both sides. Try again.

 

I object to the framing of this as "left-wing" vs. "moderate." Honestly, I think those terms as a whole are outdated 20th Century notions around the role of government when the split was between bigger and smaller government. That isn't the split any longer.

I think the best way forward is not to attack either part of the party. In the article, there is a brief mention of the warfare that exists within the party between "factions." That is, ultimately, counter-productive. Perfection shouldn't be the enemy of getting things done.

I would broadly fall into the "abundance" camp politically. I tend to lean libertarian on a whole host of economic issues. But there are issues on which I think a left-wing position is popular and warranted. But I agree with the abundance people that those left-wing positions are almost impossible with the sclerotic government of today.

So I would propose something less interesting for thought-pieces (one could make the argument that thought-pieces run the Democratic Party more than even "the groups") but more useful from a policy standpoint and more constructive for a long-term party. Here would be my planks, taken from each "side:"

1. Affordable housing: This is a complex goal, but I think it can be accomplished through a set of policies that come from a variety of perspectives. Start with the libertarian call for deregulation (the so-called YIMBY movement). Housing needs to be easier to construct in areas that have massive shortages. Second, there need to be local programs to promote remote work and the reallocation of people to areas with cheaper housing. This will help to normalize housing prices across the country some (raising them in areas that are cheaper now and further lowering them in expensive areas). I understand that companies don't all love remote work (and that some employees don't like it either), but many employees want it and it can be useful to solving the housing issues that have arisen as jobs have concentrated in cities.

2. Student Loan Forgiveness: Now, here come the howls of disapproval from the more moderate factions. But, the reality is, this is extremely popular for people from about 25-45. I'm not opposed to implementing some service requirements and/or some hit to credit, but there needs to be a way out of this. Bankruptcy is a massively good program that hasn't harmed us economically in just about any other domain. Student loans shouldn't just get to perpetually hang over a person's life for the remainder of their life with no options. I also think that some smart write-off policy would work here, where it is unlikely that the government will ever receive that money but the debt just hangs around the neck of the recipient. It can be paired with reforms to lower future abuses of the programs (e.g., tying it to more demonstrable outcomes, restricting access to for-profit schools, etc.).

3. Infrastructure reform: Infrastructure needs to be easier to build, especially when the infrastructure has positive spillover benefits. Green energy and mass transit approvals need to be dramatically simplified. But roads should be as well, especially as cars are switched to electric in the coming years. It shouldn't be so hard for the government to improve people's lives, ostensibly to protect people (an obvious contradiction). This should lower energy and transportation costs and might even somewhat improve housing costs.

4. Healthcare reform: ACA has been very successful. It is a good foundation for future healthcare plans (if you doubt this, notice the lack of alternatives being proposed by Republicans). The rate of inflation on healthcare has dramatically decreased since the passage of the law. But there are always going to be issues in profiting off of the medically crucial procedures. When people are forced to pay for a life-or-death procedure, they are not going to choose the "outside option" (death) very often. And local provision of these services have been concentrating into monopolies (many areas now have 1-2 hospital systems). Families will pay whatever it takes to keep their loved ones alive if they have a reasonable quality of life. One solution: creating a basic life/death insurance plan that is paid for by the government. Hospital systems would then need to be regulated and, at times, potentially assisted, to make sure that they have the resources to provide the care. What I would term "quality of life care" should remain market-based utilizing ACA frameworks.

5. Immigration: The immigration system is not a mess because of "the border" or not spending enough on the border. We spend billions of ever increasing dollars on the border. The issue is that immigration is completely detached from markets. When you disconnect from markets, black markets develop. The central government has implemented an absurdly onerous and bureaucratic nightmare of a system (e.g., immigrants today need to declare that they weren't supporters of Nazi Germany in the pre-war and World War II era). The last 100 years of immigration policy has failed. We need to build a modern system building on the basis of free markets. I'd suggest a massive exchange. If you are an employer and need employees, you register for the exchange. Then, potential immigrants sign up for the exchange and are vetted for anything that would deny them entry (e.g., major criminal infractions such as violent crime or fraud). They can do so in their home countries or at facilities on the border. Upon receiving an offer for a job, the employer is responsible for transporting the worker to their desired location. Fees from employers would fund the system (allowing the savings of billions per year on "security"). Wage floors are a complicated question (I would favor them in general and think they would dispel notions of "they are takin' our jerbs," but they run the risk of incentivizing illegal immigration even with the new system in place).

6. Maintain popular policies around gun ownership (push background and mental health checks hard) and abortion.

That is all that could be done in the short-term. In the long-term, I would love to see them push on issues that unite libertarian and left positions, such as substantially diminishing or getting rid of the war on drugs altogether.

 

The working class is voting for a billionaire who is raising taxes on them at the register, cutting their health care and safety nets and telling them to buy less toys for their kids but lets give defense contractors more money because Disney, gay people and brown people are destroying the country.

The answer is to go lower or wait for the people to wise up. This too far left bullshit being peddled is just that.