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The biggest fix going forward is?

Discussion in 'GatorGrowl's Diamond Gators' started by gator34654, May 19, 2024.

  1. gator34654

    gator34654 GC Hall of Fame

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    pitching or hitting? Needless to say this year both were awful. It would be easy to say find a fix for our hitting woes. Our most productive player at the plate hands down was Cags. He will be gone. No doubt the lack of hitting and how we approach balls and strikes has to be dealt with.
    But, I'm going to say the biggest fix is pitching. We've had flashes of good pitching from a few of our pitchers but just not consistent. For those who say give them time, they are just freshmen, let me say experience alone doesn't always bode well. Lots of our starters, relievers have regressed big time and they have had plenty of experience. I think Sully needs to go deep into the portal to find at least 2 starters for next year.
    We can no longer afford giving up lots of runs in the first few innings. Good pitching will keep a team in the game typically. Going into next year I just see our pitching as a liability unless key changes are made. Perhaps both pitching and hitting coaches need evaluating.
     
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  2. paidinfull

    paidinfull GC Hall of Fame

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    I don’t think you’ll find many starting sec quality pitchers buried deep in the portal. The one or two available will be right up at the top and demanding premium money.
     
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  3. Matherly87

    Matherly87 GC Hall of Fame

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    The biggest fix going forward is....pitching.
    A great pitching staff can usually compensate for a below average hitting team, as long as the team defense is also good. Not to go into details so I'll let others extrapolate that one. We should have a few pitchers coming back that hopefully can improve. I'm staying away from the guessing game who they are with today's portal and NIL constantly changing. But I believe pitching needs to be the priority or little else matters.

    On the hitting side, Cags is a big loss for any team, but other than Evans and Yost, I'm really not worried who stays or goes. I hope next year Yost can become that leadoff hitter Sully has been looking for the last few years, hello Jacob Young. Many of our players make me think we can't do much worse so let's see who wants to be here and who we get. Sure we need guys to stay and develop on their own during the off season but we should have more NIL money to go around with Cags, Neely, and Shelton gone. That NIL money will go to a few needed pitchers first and hopefully give Sully enough to shop around with after.

    So yeah finding a starting pitcher and a reliable reliever is a must. Can that be found or fixed within? That's still too hard to say so look for most of the portal action on those two replacements. As far as hitters, I think we might be seeing a trend from last year that we can get several guys that played HS ball here in Florida that went out of state but want to come back. Florida is so rich in baseball players that the numbers will always be there. We just have to hope we get lucky on a few that will pan out better than 4 or 5 that did not this past year.
     
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  4. MaceoP

    MaceoP GC Hall of Fame

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    As of today, overall team ERA is 6.28. Last in the SEC, 172nd in D1. It's hard to have a winning record (kudos to the team) when you are giving up over 6 earned runs a game. I don't think this is a one starter, one reliever fix (seems a little more than that) but it would certainly help.
     
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  5. MadduxFanII

    MadduxFanII GC Hall of Fame

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    In 2018, we made it to Omaha and had a team ERA of 3.46 -- that was the last year for Singer, Kowar and Byrne. Since then:

    2019: 5.37 team ERA
    2020: 2.41 team ERA (17 games)
    2021: 4.37 team ERA
    2022: 4.22 team ERA
    2023: 4.65 team ERA
    2024: 6.28 team ERA

    ERA is a flawed statistic, and it doesn't tell the whole story. But that's pretty striking, not withstanding the abbreviated COVID year. Something has gone wrong with either the evaluation or development of our pitchers. Maybe both. Either way, the O'Sullivan pitching magic seems to be gone.
     
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  6. srqgtr

    srqgtr Premium Member

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    Although I realize that we cannot count on true freshmen to make a big impact, are there any high schoolers coming in (assuming they don't go MLB) that are possibilities to make some impact?
     
  7. ocalaman

    ocalaman GC Hall of Fame

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    Neely & Slater have hurt their draft status with the seasons they've had, IMO. Any chance they come back for another year?
     
  8. apkgator

    apkgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Very doubtful for Neely. Not sure Slater had draft status to begin with
     
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  9. gator34654

    gator34654 GC Hall of Fame

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    I've not seen anything of our current pitchers that gives me confidence for next year. Some have had descent outings but not any consistency. To me, this is a huge problem. Either our evaluation is off or our developing pitchers is off.
     
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  10. triplegator84

    triplegator84 Freshman

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    Biggest pitching issue in my opinion is pitch sequences. This year sully has been calling pitches, last two it was BT. Pitches build off of each other and while some of our woes are missed pitches over the middle, the 0-2 and 1-2 counts that turn into hits are a lack of calling proper sequences. When you’re 0-2 throw a ball but make it set up the next pitch. Tunnel the pitches (make different pitches move through the same tunnel from the pitcher to the batter) before they break or move, limits the time a batter has to recognize the pitch, what it’s doing, and decide to swing. Lastly the second and third time through how you pitched a batter previously should play into how you pitch them this time, it really should be thought of as one at bat that spans multiple plate appearances. After watching this season it’s clear sully doesn’t think about pitching like this, add in his emotion, and him calling pitches is doing these kids no favors. So either bring in a catcher who can call a game (luke and brody are not that guy, tanner was) or give it up to our pitching coach/or get a new one who can.

    hitting wise I think its gonna need a new coach. Wipe it clean, focus on quality 7-9 pitch at bats and singles. Don’t be afraid to use small ball baseball to move guys and get runs, try (oh please try) to change some of these swing angles to get away from the live and die by the homerun ball.
     
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  11. 74nole

    74nole GC Hall of Fame

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    Refreshing post to say the least @triplegator84. Approach and execution are both key—from the pitching side as well as the offensive side.

    I have lived my baseball life as both a player and a coach with the working pitching belief that the art of pitching is the ability to disrupt the timing of hitting. That can be looked at in several different ways but for me you hit the nail square on the head when you referenced pitch sequences.

    Now obviously if we have arms of the high octane nature, that’s a plus to make pitch sequences more effective but only with command and control of high velo. Location/Location/Location can’t be preached enough.

    It’s much more than just throwing curveballs in fastball counts. If you’ve got a hitter set up for breaking ball away—you can be just as effective with a well located 2-seam FB in on his hands. This type of command can totally scramble the hitter’s mind about what’s coming next….As you said it’s all about pitch sequences.

    The same approach/execution holds true for our hitters game plans.
    The biggest problem that I see (and see as very correctable) is our hitting DNA should be HIT IT WHERE IT’S PITCHED. If you can execute this one concept alone averages will be better and homeruns will happen when they’re supposed to.
     
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  12. Matherly87

    Matherly87 GC Hall of Fame

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    I would add, I don't think its a one starter, one reliever fix either. Its unknown if Sully can get those guys as transfers, true freshmen doubted, or see major talent increases with any guys that return. Hopefully its a combination in all areas. Its tough to imagine a huge turn around from where we are now so improvement might be in small yearly steps. Then again in one year, we went from national runner up to hanging on by the skin of our teeth.
     
  13. gator34654

    gator34654 GC Hall of Fame

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    Last year we were able to get a real good starter from the portal. There are portal guys and with the NIL they are looking around. Seems Sully has recruited a lot of young pitchers, we not only have to develop them but like was mentioned, have the right person calling the pitches.
    I think some of our pitchers get a bad rap for the very reason the right pitches were not called thus they were left out to dry. Pitching is a glaring issue that has to be addressed in the off season.
     
  14. paidinfull

    paidinfull GC Hall of Fame

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    He signed a projected starter out of the portal last year too. The guy decided to go pro at the last second.
     
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  15. triplegator84

    triplegator84 Freshman

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    If you enjoy pitching strategy take a look at some of the game breakdown videos that Trevor Bauer is posting on his YouTube. Like or dislike the guy these videos should be pitching 101 for how to think about the strategy of pitching. I’ve known guys who have all the talent and can get far of off that but eventually run into the wall of better hitters, that’s where sequencing and strategy come together. Ugh I want somebody who puts this stuff into our game next year.
     
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  16. tenfold

    tenfold GC Legend

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    Where the crawfish stay.
    Never been a coach and was never an athlete but I will attempt to speak into patterns.
    Plate approach had some horrible patterns throughout this season. Even with this I believe hitting is correctable. It just never got corrected this season.
    If you look at the leaders in Strikeouts for the entire SEC, UF had the leader(Shelton) and 5 of the top 10 in strikeouts. This is just monumental negligence from a hitting standpoint. How can this even be possible?


    We know from last year that Shelton, Kurland and Heyman can hit. All three were Freshman All Americans. Heyman proved this point in the Georgia series. These players have the ability to succeed at the plate but this year’s team had an unusually high propensity to strike out, chase balls and show no change in approach.
    Sully mentioned time and time again the team conversations about altering approach at the plate. He said it was discussed at practice but did not translate during games. This was in multiple post game interviews.
    Shelton, Ty, Kurland, Heyman and Shelnut we are leaders in the wrong category. I think we have hitters on this team. Unfortunately the players showed little capacity to make necessary adjustments.
    Look at Cags, he greatly improved his hitting from the previous year. Not only in BA but his strikeout percentage was one of the lowest in all baseball. Cags made changes in the offseason and was very disciplined all year. Correcting the wrong patterns and infusing a new mindset is a must. Otherwise the portal gives you a player swap. The three aforementioned were All Americans so the potential is on the roster currently.

    So what is the solution?
    I would Clean the slate from a coaching standpoint and get someone who can correct these issues. Coaching must have the ability to develop players. Leadership will make those around them better. Something was lacking from a coaching leadership standpoint.
    Coaching/leadership needs a serious upgrade. Water still flows downhill. Fix the coaching and hitting should improve.
    But again I never laced up the shoes. I just own multiple business and realize that leadership and success always run parallel and in step.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2024
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  17. gtr2x

    gtr2x GC Hall of Fame

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    Pitching! Not even close in my book. Nothing more frustrating as a position player than scoring a bunch of runs then watching the pitching staff give it up with walks, hbp, 2 strike fatties, etc etc.
    Peterson is definitely a kid to build around.

    Chicks love the long ball, but pitching wins games. :cool:
     
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  18. GatorLurker

    GatorLurker GC Hall of Fame

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    I get what you are saying but I don't think that Sully was telling our pitchers to throw a ball over the middle of the plate. It was mostly pitching errors and not incorrect pitches being called.

    And I doubt that BT was calling the pitches. Sully was calling them via headset and not signing them in like it used to be. Sully is a guy that wants to be in control of everything and I doubt that he gave control of the game to BT.

    Added in edit: When I had a kid at Holy Family Child Caring Center for pre-K I picked him up and took him to a Gator baseball game. Our head coach was out of town (I don't remember which one it was) so the staff had to manage the game. I was sitting in the first base bleachers and I was predicting every pitch that we threw and I was right 90% of the time. The other coaches wanted to do everything by the book so that they could cover their hindquarters. The people near me thought that I was stealing signs.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2024
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  19. triplegator84

    triplegator84 Freshman

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    I can only go off what I was told but multiple players from this and last years teams is where I gleaned this information from regarding who called pitches.
     
  20. shane4three

    shane4three GC Hall of Fame

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    Agree with you. Will be several guys from mid major programs ( Ala Waldrep) that will be looking for opportunities from bigger schools.