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Tacoma ICE Facility Terror Attacker IDed as Antifa Activist

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by flgator2, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. gatorchamps0607

    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta Premium Member

    Aug 14, 2007
    Hendersonville, TN
    How many migrant caravans showed up during Obama's admin? I know a couple did but I tried to search and couldn't find much on numbers or how many.

    Wikipedia only shows them from October-November of last year

    Central American migrant caravans - Wikipedia
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  2. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

    Oct 30, 2017
    Yeah, I can't recall, but we had many of the same issues. It really surged around 2014. The cartels are purposefully doing this.
  3. finorman

    finorman All American

    Jan 30, 2009
    He asked a fair question.... other than intent and what party you support, what is different between the two administration?
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  4. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

    Oct 30, 2017
    Frankly, my time is valuable to me. If I'm going to spend a good amount of time explaining something, I want it to be to somebody who is going to actually read what I write and consider it. It seems like you're open to that, so I will explain. There are many, many differences between how things were handled under Obama and how things are handled now. I'll focus on a few key differences.
    1. Trump is doing his damnedest to lock up every asylum seeker he can in immigration detention. That policy is stressing the resources we have. It's actually making the country less safe because Border Patrol has to shift manpower and resources away from checkpoints (which are quite useful in catching drug and human traffickers). How is this different than under Obama? First, William Barr overturned a BIA decision that allowed immigration judges to grant bond to certain asylum seekers. Instead, they are now being held indefinitely in detention. You can find a link here discussing that decision. Second, this administration is granting significantly less discretionary bond and parole than the Obama administration did. You can find a link here discussing that.

    2. Next, Trump has forsaken successful programs from the past that allowed asylum seekers out of detention, let them work here in the U.S. while their case was processed, and ensured they showed up to their hearings. Those programs were actually significantly more cost-effective for us taxpayers than locking people up in detention. Here's an article discussing one such program (the Family Case Management Plan) that cost significantly less (nearly 10x cheaper) than detaining people and had very few people fail to show up to hearings or get away (only 2% absconded).

    3. Trump is using metering at ports of entry to prevent asylum seekers from coming in the proper way and is still separating families unnecessarily. For example, the father and daughter who drowned recently had spent weeks trying to present themselves for asylum. However, due to metering, they were turned away every time. Instead of waiting for months or years in Mexico, they decided to cross illegally to ask for asylum. We've seen a massive uptick of people doing that because of metering. They died while trying to cross. The policy of metering accomplishes two main purposes: 1) it juices the apprehension data to allow the Trump admin to pretend we have a security crisis and 2) it makes entering the country more dangerous for asylum seekers. And then due to the new policy from Barr, the asylum seekers who enter illegally due to the metering cannot be granted bond and are stuck in detention. Many are also prosecuted, which separates families. The Obama admin generally did not prosecute people for illegal entry unless they had criminal histories, were gang members, or were known traffickers. The Obama admin also set different enforcement priorities in immigration courts, which allowed people who were here working and not breaking the law to generally escape deportation to avoid clogging the system up.

    4. They are also funneling these people to private, for-profit detention centers. They are doing this to help their corporate donors make a bigger profit. They are actually wasting tax dollars in doing this. Further, they are holding people in facilities that well past capacity for well past the amount of time they should be there and not properly taking care of them. They were just in court recently arguing that they didn't have to apply sanitary items like toothbrushes and toothpaste to children. Additionally, they have ended activities that improved the quality of life for the children stuck in detention. You can see an article on that here. They're also trying to block resources that allowed for asylum seekers to receive representation or at least have the legal process explained to them before their immigration court hearings. This is actually making our system less efficient because the people walking into the hearings with no idea what's happening and struggle to comprehend what's going on at the hearings. A friend of mine is an immigration judge, and that recent change has been an absolute pain in the butt for him. It's slowing everything down.

    This is truly just the tip of the iceberg. The policy here is cruelty, and it continues to backfire spectacularly. It's not stemming the tide. It's actually arguably making people more likely to come here because they fear things getting even worse. The basic gist is that they're doing everything they can to detain people, instead of using all of the resources at their disposal. Then, they're using the lack of bed space as a reason for metering at ports of entry. Then, when people who can't get in at the ports of entry cross illegally and turn themselves in, they use that to refuse to let them out of detention. Now, our facilities are overwhelmed, and these people are being treated cruelly because we can't actually detain all of the people they're trying to detain.

    Part of the reason it is backfiring is because the cartels are benefiting from it, so they're recruiting even more people to come here by lying to them. They either make false promises to them or scare them into coming. They make money getting them here, and due to the Border Patrol having to put so many resources into dealing with the influx of people and overtaxed facilities, they can't properly man our checkpoints. That makes drug and human trafficking easier for the cartels.

    I can't even blame Border Patrol. They've been trying to recruit people, but they can't fill the jobs quickly enough to compensate for the bodies they're losing (ICE is taking a lot of people from USBP because the job has more action and more options on where one can be located). They're doing their best to deal with this. Yes, there are some bad actors with USBP, but many of them are doing what they can with a bad hand they've been dealt by this administration.

    I know people think I'm some bleeding-heart liberal on immigration, but I'm actually fairly moderate on the issue. I do not agree with people in my party who want to decriminalize the border. The vast majority of people crossing illegally are harmless. They're either desperate asylum seekers or people who just want to work. But there is a minority of people who are dangerous. And we need to be able to punish them to keep them from coming back.

    However, I also recognize our system is broken. Our asylum system needs to be totally reformed. Our immigration system needs to be totally reformed. We have labor demand in this country and labor supply outside the country. We're never going to stop people from crossing for work if the jobs are there. We can make it more difficult for them, but we won't stop them. Thus, it makes total sense to create a system that allows us to vet who comes in and allows them to come work here where they are needed for periods of time. With the asylum system, we need to increase the resources and increase the due process protections. We need to end family separation to the extent practicable. It's evil. And we need to treat the children in our care humanely. You wouldn't think any of those things would be controversial. They're all reasonable solutions.

    Further, border security is important. We need to be able to vet who is coming into the country and apprehend dangerous people seeking to come in without permission. A wall is bad policy, but strategically placed barriers can be useful. Obviously, manpower is a must, as are technological advancements. The solutions to our problems are there, but as long as Trump is stoking hatred and fear, they will never happen.

    Also, I will note that while I mocked Trump, Mexico is actually responding. It's debatable how much effort they're putting into the response, and it's debatable whether they're putting on a show or not, but they are responding. For example, they have federal police and military parking vehicles along the border to discourage the cartel from helping the asylum seekers cross. However, they're obviously not able to stop the asylum seekers from trying to cross.

    People can roll their eyes at me all they want, but my perspective here isn't based on the media or on pundits. I'm down here. I am seeing everything firsthand. I have an insight into the system that few have. Anybody trying to claim that Trump and Obama are the same is being dishonest. I felt Obama's biggest failure was immigration, but Obama made much more of an effort to do things the right way than the Trump admin has so far. So yes, I believe the cruelty they're showing is purposeful. And I'm not the only one who believes that. I posted a tweet from Juliette Kayyem, who was a Senior DHS official under Obama, making the same point.
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  5. flgator2

    flgator2 GC Legend

    Apr 3, 2007
    I Agree with this Obama.
    "People can roll their eyes at me all they want, but my perspective here isn't based on the media or on pundits. I'm down here. I am seeing everything firsthand."
    America has been seeing first hand what's really going on also, we know the facts. I blame the dems and repubs for never truly trying to fix immigration. I praise Trump for attempting to correct this. My wife's entire family lives throughout New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas and a few other adjoining states and I base some of my perspectives on what they have seen over the years.
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  6. gatorpa

    gatorpa GC Hall of Fame

    Sep 5, 2010
    East Coast of FL
    Thank you for the informative response, it is appreciated.

    I would think if people wanting to come here realized it wasn't an open door this would discourage the attempt. Perhaps there are unintended consequences, I also doubt the majority are coming to escape the typical reasons people seek asylum.

    Neither side wants to do reform for valid (political) reasons. Neither side wants to "lose face" with their base.

    I think we model our policy after what other developed nations do.

    The big fear is if people are let out to wait for a hearing they won't return and will vanish into the country, and that's a valid concern.

    People who have come here legal and done the needed things to be allowed to stay don't like free borders any more than most citizens.

    We also need to get the fact that we cannot just let who ever and why ever they want to come to America, its not 1860 when we were a growing expanding nation with a continent to fill.

    Trump may be making it hard for the asylum seekers but I don't think its because of some Evil dislike for Brown people.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  7. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

    May 28, 2007
    A wall is bad policy, but strategically placed barriers can be useful.

    Let's rephrase that removing the semantics
    A wall is bad policy but walls can be useful
  8. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

    Oct 30, 2017
    No, you haven't, and no, you don't. You would have to be down here to see it firsthand.

    Sure, if you are now redefining what "the wall" is. Y'all are good at moving the goalposts. Barriers are a small part of a legitimate immigration reform plan.
  9. nobbqsauce

    nobbqsauce All American

    Nov 21, 2018
    The redifining of definitions is something both parties excel at.
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  10. homer

    homer GC Legend

    Nov 2, 2015
    Are there Cliff Notes available for this at the local book store?

    Asking for a friend.
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  11. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer Premium Member

    Oct 30, 2017
    Well, I gave my cliff notes earlier. But people asked me to show my work. ;)
  12. nobbqsauce

    nobbqsauce All American

    Nov 21, 2018
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