Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PD, Mar 2, 2021.
More importantly, why won't either group STFU about how right they are about everything?
I'd suggest that what you is offer as an example is a pure form of altruism. I think people get hung up on the faulty assumption that to derive any pleasurable psychological benefit means that it wasn't truly altruistic--but this is a mistake in both conceptualization and logic.
Altruism is the act of doing for others *period* It wasn't as conceptualized, exclusive of deriving personal pleasure, but rather in the sociological realm, as an individual's ethical obligation in society where self-interested, rational actors maximize pleasure and minimize pain for others as they do for themselves because it takes altruism in cooperative society for it to thrive.
I knew you wouldn’t get out of this easily, PD.
Indirectly it sure is! Has there ever been a Christian who has given an explanation Jesus would approve of for supporting a man so thoroughly degenerate as to be functionally satanic? There is nothing as hypocritical, disgusting and off putting than the support for Trump by people who, by that support, defile Christ’s teachings and show no moral compass at all.
I have a “business” partner that isn’t religious (I’m not really either).
He mediated / prayed for someone to help his ex-wife (who was having an affair before the divorce) have a better day than him each day.
Still blows my mind each time I hear that story. This 60 year old man lives in peace with his ex-wife / her current husband and is co parents of his kids (oldest is at FSU ).
Said he never would have gotten there without asking some creator for help. Hope I’m never there, but an open mind can be good.
I can define altruism, as that above example as I would shoot my wife and whoever she cheated on me with if the mother of my two boys did that.
Not a Christian, but the Golden Rule is golden IMO.
WINNER! It’s every bit as simple as that. But man’s brain, the one propelling us to overpopulate and pollute and destroy the planet, has to complicate it, ultimately to no avail. No one’s god has ever saved a person from the Ultimate Fate or ever will.
Maybe he really wanted the house to himself? I can relate sometimes, thinking about the pizza and movie parties I could have without the threat of interuption.
Philosophically, it's a useful discussion to have, provided we are willing to listen to opposing viewpoints.
So when a society decides that something is good...that something is necessarily "good?"
If God created the moral code, why didn't he have anything to say about slavery?
There’s a great book titled The Good Divorce, that would shock a lot of folks. Even when there is cheating or other betrayals, people are capable through love and respect (especially when kids are involved) to go through divorce and remain friends (even best friends), a mutual support group, parenting partners, business partners, etc.
Some people are better divorced couples than they were married couples. When I read this book, it was not that big a surprise to me because I had two friends in their 40s in my UF dorm (maybe in their 30s...I don’t know, when I was 19, everyone over 25 looked 70) who were divorced, and both of them told me that they were still good friends with their ex-wives and occasionally would go out with them and even have sex now and then. And they said the sex was so much better than when they were married because they didn’t have any of the marital conflicts or stresses getting in the way. They were just able to enjoy each other. It’s amazing how much better all relationships are when you take away anger and resentment.
I don’t think any religious connection is required, although it is necessary for some people, or at least helpful for them.
Well if it sustains over time, unless the society oppresses or enslaved part of its population, yes. Because if it wasn’t good, and didn’t serve the society, it would not continue to be deemed as good.
IIRC the Bible condones slavery. Its been quite a while since undergrad (I minored in religion). I remember one OT passage said its ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die.
I also recall there being a passage where Jesus said it was ok to beat slaves .
I see you have identified an exception. What is the source of the allowance for an exception?
that is cool as hell. thanks for sharing.
This line sums it up
So what are the positive beliefs and how are they determined?
In short ethics are taught and learned as they are not inherent. Right or wrong people become cognitive and reasoning as life experiences accumulate. As a collective we provide support for one another in a variety of ways. It is the need for such support that develops one's ethics. Is it ethical to slaughter animals? In our society the answer is it depends on the why and not the act of killing in and of itself.
Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics and Richard Bach's Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah come to mind.
Sure, which is an easier conversation usually with people that aren't married to either one. Atheism doesn't have a moral code though in contrast to religious morals. All atheism is is the rejection of religion and God, not an alternate worldview. We have emerged from dirt and will return to dirt. From that point of view they say their morality has developed organically through their own choices. The problem with that though is that morality today has been significantly influenced by religious morals, even if you don't subscribe to the religion or all of the rules. The way you interact in society has been influenced by centuries of social development and religion had a significant influence on that.
Hmmmm, this is a little deep for me. From my personal perspective, I am not an atheist, I just no longer attend church. After having to switch churches every few years due to military moves, I started to notice the reoccurring hypocrisies. I don't think all churches or the people that go there are like that, it was probably just an unfortunate coincidence.
I am at peace and happy. I have a couple of friends that are very active in the church and they walk the talk. I love hanging out with them and get fellowship from them.
Once or twice a week, I spend alone time in the woods with no electronics. Running, hiking or riding with just my thoughts and appreciation for the world we live on.
May be sacrilegious to some, but I call it "Dirt Church".
Like you my house is my church.
I know a number of people who strongly do not believe in any kind of "God", but refuse to identify as atheists. It's always for the same reasons. Atheists as a movement are focused on celebrating their intellectual superiority, and ridiculing people who hold the opposite viewpoint. You know when you read atheists columns, what you are going to be in for.
It's the same reason that, though I might agree with much of what a libertarian says, I would never identify as a libertarian. They are Smarter than you. They are libertarians. Everyone else is dumb. That's just common sense, isn't it?
Also, try joining one of these groups. Go on their blogs and announce you are one of them and state your unique views. I guarantee you're not atheist/libertarian enough to call yourself one because you think that (insert individual viewpoint here.)
From this week:
People Literally Don’t Know When to Shut Up—or Keep Talking—Science Confirms