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Still love Coach White...

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by GratefulGator, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. Gatorhead5

    Gatorhead5 All American

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    I'm just trying to keep perspective on CMW. Two years ago we went to Elite 8 and last year 2nd round...25 years ago we would be erecting a statue for the guy! Doesn't mean he is definitely the man long term for sure, but I do feel like his coaching will continue to improve, and there will be an enormous increase in talent starting next season.
     
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  2. The_Graygator

    The_Graygator GC Hall of Fame

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    And since Egbunu has been gone, we haven't had any kind of consistent inside game.

    How many tre's did we shoot yesterday? 26? That means we have no inside game. I've seen a lot of different perspectives and opinions on what's going on, but what I've seen are four variables that are hurting us the most under White… 1) our team's physical conditioning is not what it was under Donovan, 2) there is a lack of size, athleticism, and physicality in our front court, and 3)White is way too finesse and stringent in forcing too much perimeter offense each game, and finally 4) a lack of player development.

    I think Coach White is a quality guy, I think he's a great representative of our program and pure class... but he's the wrong fit for UF, and as much as I wanted White to succeed, I knew he was the wrong fit when we hired him. He's just too "LA. Tech" and not "Florida" imo. Where are the big, athletic forwards and center in our next class? It's mainly elite perimeter shooters. This isn't the NBA, it's college. The fact that White has failed to consistently create an inside game this season tells me he's more concerned with his perimeter game than a balanced offensive attack. It's just a poor approach imo.

    I think it's time for AD Scot Striklin to seriously re-evaluate White and start taking a look around, because this just isn't working, and judging by his personnel recruiting, I don't see much, if any, wavering by White from the system that, so far, hasn't delivered much here at UF.
     
  3. MaceoP

    MaceoP GC Hall of Fame

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    I understand the need to be patient and how bringing in a top class next year may alleviate the problems. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the class he is bringing in is not going to fix our front court issues. We probably will be better due to the new players, however we will still have major front court issues.
     
  4. wci347

    wci347 GC Hall of Fame

    I really hope that MW gets "his team" and his style fully implemented so at the end of a season when we see the results the praise or the blame can be placed squarely on him. It is hard to believe that 4 years into his tenure, we are still talking about his not having "his players" on the team. He has had three recruiting years.

    He is losing Johnson and in all likelihood will be losing Okauru if Okauru cares anything about his future. A team that has probably 7 players that are 6'6" or less creates a a tremendous log jam - Mann, Lewis, Ballard, Locke, Johnson, Nembard, and Okauru.

    Those 6'8" and above are a complete mystery. Bassett is the only returning big. Stokes and Gak are virtual mysteries. Payne is a mystery. If last year is any indication, conservative assessment would weigh in favor of not counting either Gak or Stokes as being productive. We all want them to be superstars but reality is reality. So once again, we will have 7 small players and two people 6'8" or bigger that are healthy.

    This is a prescription for failure. How many years do we have to watch the FSUs, the Clemsons, the Tennessees and the Kentuckys grabbing offensive rebound after offensive rebound, and running lay up lines against our defense? At some point in time common sense and logic have to set in. Unless you start recruiting physical bigs who are versatile - who can handle the rock if necessary, we are going to see these bubble year existences.

    The media is being kind to MW now, but at some point in time they will turn as they do, and daddy at Duke will not be able to save him.
     
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  5. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    It's certainly a legit concern at this point. But what if . . .
    • Omar Payne (6'9") hits the ground running
    • Stokes (6'8") performs a physical makeover
    • Bassett (6'9") continues to develop
    • We get a grad transfer anywhere near the size/ability of Egbunu
    That's discounting any potential contributions from Gak (6'11") and Stone (6'8"). If those four factors come to fruition, we might just have a decent front court. The fourth point is the proverbial wild card and as you say, we will just have to be patient to wait/hope for that. If Gak or Stone gets well enough to play, we add a hint of depth.
     
  6. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    If next year's freshman perform as well as this year's . . . we will be in very good shape.

    The offense being much worse is not something I would attribute to the freshmen.
     
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  7. gatorbogey

    gatorbogey Premium Member

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    4. I saw a great deal of development with Hill and Chiozza.
    3. Not sure anything is “forced” to the perimeter. White basically wants to attack the rim if possible every possession, with a drive. If the D thwarts that drive, then the player will kick out to the perimeter or dish to a big, if he stayed inside.
    1. Preston Greene has been S&C coach for UF Basketball under both Donovan and White. Since 2011. That’s one bit of continuity between staffs.
     
  8. regurgigator

    regurgigator VIP Member

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    Not to mention he's averaging 5.6 assists per game (5th in the SEC) on a team that's not particularly strong at "cashing in" on scoring opportunities, and he's doing it with a very nice assist-to-turnover ratio. But, I'm used to playmaking skills getting short (if any :cool:) shrift from most fans.
     
  9. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    Nailed it.

    I was gonna post similar, but didn’t have the energy.

    I would add the names Devin Robinson, Justin Leon, kevarrius Hayes, Dontay Bassett to your list.
     
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  10. gatorchamps0607

    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta Premium Member

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    Anyone asking for Whites head now has never and will never run a successful business in their lifetime.. End of story.
     
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  11. oneatatime

    oneatatime GC Hall of Fame

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    When it comes to big men, White has had a terrible string of bad luck starting with Egbunu

    While we will have plenty of scorers on next year's roster, White has had a nice history of immediately working in grad transfers (Barry and Egor). Given UF's great reputation for grad degrees, it is almost unfathomable that we won't be able to rent-a-big or two depending on any additional transfers besides Chase Johnson
     
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  12. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I certainly wouldn't blame nembhard or any of his shortcomings for the issues on offense with this group.
     
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  13. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Are you kidding with this?

    We got one of the best athletic forwards in the country and a top rated big man.....
     
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  14. UFGator05

    UFGator05 GC Legend

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    Completely agree. No excuse for the lack of White’s big man recruiting. His teams are predicated on chucking it up and hoping it goes in. Ever watch White from the sidelines? Almost no coaching up the guys. Complete opposite of Billy. He continues to learn on the job and struggles to balance the roster in recruiting. We know what we’ve got at this point and this program could do so much better. I like White personally, but he’s the wrong guy for the job and it’s painfully obvious
     
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  15. gatorbogey

    gatorbogey Premium Member

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    I’m seeing an entirely different CMW, I see him up constantly, directing players on where to go with sets, yelling out instructions, etc....
     
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  16. The_Graygator

    The_Graygator GC Hall of Fame

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    I gotcha. You're welcome to your opinion, but what you see, I haven't, and I see more of it in our future under White. MW appears to me to be tunnel-visioned about perimeter offense, much like TOG was about building a great defense on the football team and ignoring the offense. Like TOG was great at spotting defensive talent, MW seems very good at spotting perimeter talent and lacking in spotting front court talent.

    Anyone can be good at yelling instructions and directing their players, so was TOG, but we saw what happened there too. Doesn't mean they're good at it.

    I understand there are those here who defend MW, and I do agree with them that I want him to succeed, but what we're going to get from MW is inconsistency and under-achievement because simply, he's in over his head here at UF.

    I'm not ragging on MW, I'm just being honest. If the MW era continues at UF after this year, you're probably going to see more seasons like this one as opposed to successful ones.
     
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  17. gatorbogey

    gatorbogey Premium Member

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    Well, in regards to “coaching”: the poster claims he sees no coaching from CMW - which is easily refuted with empirical data . Not sure why or how that is Germaine to your original post on the subject. CDM has shown he can coach (e.g. elite8 run). Wasn’t exactly over his head that season, was he? One could argue: We were a couple of *blown* calls by the ref’s from the final4.

    CMW has struck out on some bigs. No doubt. Chase had concussion issues. Gak plays well for his Aussie national team in the summer - looked to be on the verge of maybe a good year for us but gets injured and gets out of shape. Stokes was coveted by many other teams, but hasn’t gotten in game shape to contribute the way many thought he could....

    hard to bitch and moan about some of CMW’s early classes since he was just embarking on the recruiting trail- I give him the benefit of the doubt....but Bassett has done okay as a “big”.

    Again, what White wants in his offense is more of a slash and attack style. He’d love to finish at the rim every time if possible. But he will deploy the others at the arc for an open 3. Prefers getting 3 rather than a long 2. Just makes sense.

    I do think CMW is learning the *craft*...just as BD continuously did. To me, CMW is a clone of BD. Have you listened to any of his recent pressers? Like BD he’s quite candid. I see no comparison to Muschamp....only a BD lookalike.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  18. akaGatorhoops

    akaGatorhoops VIP Member GC Columnist

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    MW isn’t tunnel-visioned with an intent on perimeter offense.... he is stuck with it this year. I presume you do not listen to many of the post game press conferences. He has lamented this fact over, and over.
    Is that his fault? Partially… YES. The reality is, we are right now paying for the lack of production from his first two recruiting cycles.
    But did we not expect to have a transition upon the departure of one of the greatest college coaches ever???? Did we really think this would be entirely seamless??? The truth is… Florida basketball is not Duke, Kentucky or Kansas. The name on our jersey was largely ... almost entirely... associated with Billy Donovan. And so, when Mike White arrived he had an uphill battle. And the starting point was a roster that finished the preceding season under .500.
    He is very much a relationship style recruiter. And so his first two classes didn’t afford him much time. And those two classes were not great, and experienced a ton of attrition due to injury:

    Bassett, Hester, Leon, Okauru, Ballard, Stokes, Johnson, Gak. Leon produced, but had only two years. Of the remaining 7, FOUR had year+ injuries. Two are gone from the program. One kid was a late flier after Shai bolted. Ironically- for a guy supposedly hellbent on a perimeter game— his first two classes leaned heavy to the interior. Regardless- those classes have struggled.

    The good news? We are now seeing White’s capabilities when he has the needed time and tools. Omar is a top 50 player nationally, and widely considered one of the top 10 centers in the country. . . So to ask where are the “big, athletic forwards/centers in the next class”.... suggests you are paying no attention whatsoever.
    What is funny is that White was initially accused of not placing value on perimeter players... “he doesn’t value shooters”, is what Bullis griped.
    Now, the knock is the opposite. Lol.
    The truth is... White’s system looks for aggressive, attacking and almost positionless players at the 2, 3 and 4 spots. Like Mann, Lewis and KJ. It needs a tall point guard who can see over defenses, find gaps, initiate the offense and distribute. Though he absolutely needs to finish better, AN will excel ... especially with less scoring burden. The offense also needs kids who can knock down perimeter shots on drive/kicks.... like Noah Locke. And it needs athletic bigs who can run the floor, play an aggressive, switching defense and finish on dumpoffs. Guys kinda like Omar Payne and Dontay Bassett. . . and maybe ????.
    Anyway, the ddo is not designed to be a perimeter based offense. It’s intent is to attack the rim. So your categorization is off a bit. Unfortunately, with this team lacking guys who can effectively attack... you get what you see: perimeter based offense.
    But that is a product of personnel... not plan or intent. And why we have the personell issue has been discussed above.
    Anyway, White will absolutely be back next year, ... and with a roster that will contain a lot of the needed pieces. I think your prognostications will prove wrong.
     
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  19. HallGator

    HallGator Senile Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    No, it's really not painfully obvious. His team just doesn't just throw up the ball and hope it goes in. He does coach them up and he does coach from the sidelines. And he's actually quite a lot like Billy. Other than that I guess you're probably right:)
     
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  20. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    There is not a single ounce of basketball analysis in this post.