Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

Stand your ground strikes again

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by oragator1, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

    6,494
    1,029
    548
    May 29, 2007
    Richmond, VA
    I stand corrected. My point is the same: you don't pull a gun unless you are going to use it. Just realize that when you use it, there is a good chance the person getting shot is going to die.
     
  2. SCGator52

    SCGator52 GC Legend

    987
    32
    248
    Apr 8, 2007
    San Antonio, Tx
    If you can stop an actual threat with just pulling a gun that is more ideal than taking someone’s life. Remember I said stop an actual threat not just act like a bad ass. There’s so many that are downplaying the significance of actually taking a life. This isn’t a movie or some game, taking a life is the last option.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
  3. tegator80

    tegator80 GC Hall of Fame

    6,494
    1,029
    548
    May 29, 2007
    Richmond, VA
    There has already been posts on this aspect. Simply, you can NOT pull your gun and act like you could use it. That is a felony. You should only pull a gun when you feel threatened to where your life is in danger and then you use it. It is like a pregnancy, you can't to it partially.
     
  4. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl GC Hall of Fame

    13,600
    1,949
    698
    Apr 8, 2007
    northern MN
    Good Lord. Some people really believe this?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl GC Hall of Fame

    13,600
    1,949
    698
    Apr 8, 2007
    northern MN
    Thank you
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  6. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl GC Hall of Fame

    13,600
    1,949
    698
    Apr 8, 2007
    northern MN
    And then there are facts . . .



    He goes on to explain that displaying a firearm MAY result in being charged with various crimes. The law, however, clearly states that displaying in the act of self-defense is not a crime.
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
  7. SCGator52

    SCGator52 GC Legend

    987
    32
    248
    Apr 8, 2007
    San Antonio, Tx
    Sorry but you are wrong. You cannot just go around pulling your gun out to scare people or just to be a bad ass. For instance if I walk up to you and start an argument and then pull my gun out to let you know I’m carrying or I think I’m such a bad ass then yes I can get charged and should. If you walk up to me and start attacking me I can pull my weapon and stop the attack. If you stop the attack and retreat I am not allowed to shoot you thus the defensive display of a firearm is allowed. Some people don’t understand simple things and just jump to “oh I’ll shoot that sob and be ok”. Taking a life is a serious action and carrying a firearm has serious responsibility. I really hope some people on here aren’t carrying as their mindset is not where it needs to be.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. mutz87

    mutz87 Ain't me VIP Member

    36,024
    2,653
    1,636
    Aug 30, 2014
    Effective defensive gun use would encompass the deterrent effect of a gun itself and can very much be only showing it, but not shooting.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. BobK89

    BobK89 GC Hall of Fame

    12,969
    676
    658
    Apr 9, 2007
    Tampa, FL
    That's the case, but for SYG (which is not self defense), you cannot become the aggressor. By flashing the gun in his waistband, Dooley became the aggressor.
     
  10. mutz87

    mutz87 Ain't me VIP Member

    36,024
    2,653
    1,636
    Aug 30, 2014
    Agree. Also, the average police officer doesn't pull his gun all that often over the course of his career, but is significantly more likely to only pull it (whether to have it at the ready or to communicate a stronger visual deterrent) than to fire it.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  11. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

    6,153
    859
    563
    Apr 9, 2007
    The “display in a non-threatening manner” he’s speaking of is primarily in the context of printing or inadvertently flashing a weapon. It’s the idea that I’m not going to prison if someone catches a glimpse of a gun in my waistband when I get out of the car before I can pull my shirt tail down, not purposely displaying your gun to people in public.

    Note what he says when he actually gets down to the subject at issue (displaying a firearm in self-defense): “I highly recommend against it.

    Displaying a gun in a defensive situation is in and of itself an escalation to deadly force, i.e. you’re only legally justified in pulling a gun on someone if you would also be justified in shooting them. Because of that, it’s generally a really bad idea to make “show a gun” part of your self-defense strategy - it’s a good way to get yourself killed if the other person is armed (or in a position to disarm you), and you are putting yourself in legal jeopardy by doing so. That being said, it doesn’t mean that once you’ve pulled a gun you have to shoot someone with it - obviously if you pull your gun to use it but the threat ceases to exist before you do, you shouldn’t continue you on to shoot someone anyways just because the gun is already out.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl GC Hall of Fame

    13,600
    1,949
    698
    Apr 8, 2007
    northern MN
    Exactly - those who suggested that if you pull your gun, you must fire it were wrong. They were also wrong that pulling the gun is a felony. In a self-defense situation, the CW carrier may pull the weapon w/o discharging it.

    In this case, video evidence exists for a self-defense situation. He could have legally drawn w/o firing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. GatorBen

    GatorBen Premium Member

    6,153
    859
    563
    Apr 9, 2007
    I don’t know that anyone actually disagrees so much as the wording is confusing.

    “Don’t pull your gun unless you’re going to shoot someone” is generally correct advice, it just doesn’t necessarily imply “if you’ve already pulled your gun you have to shoot someone.” And they’re generally correct that “pull a gun to scare someone off” is, generally speaking, bad advice and a good way to buy yourself a criminal charge.

    This case is just an odd one because it’s sort of in the no man’s land - if pulling the gun when he hit the ground was okay, “hit the ground, boom” would have also been okay. This becomes a hard one because there was a (brief) delay that made it “hit the ground, tick, tick, boom,” and two steps backward happened during that tick, tick.
     
  14. g8tr80

    g8tr80 Premium Member

    5,773
    52
    238
    Apr 3, 2007
    Altercations like this happen all the time - every day. People get into arguments which unfortunately lead to physical violence and sometimes much worse. This is nothing out of the ordinary. What is out of the ordinary is the punk ass sheriff pulling his best Comey impression and independently decides that no prosecutor would try the case. The arsehole shot someone who was unarmed. You arrest him and let the courts decide the outcome.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. MaceoP

    MaceoP GC Hall of Fame

    2,664
    105
    278
    Apr 3, 2007
    2 arseholes. In this day and age, you don't initiate violence. You never know when someone may be carrying a gun. There was no reason for the person who was shot to throw the other guy to the floor. The fact that the person who initiated the violence didn't continue after the person on the floor, IMO, makes the shooting unjust. I stand by 2 arseholes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Bazza

    Bazza GC Hall of Fame

    14,962
    3,220
    953
    Jan 2, 2009
    New Smyrna Beach
     
  17. 96Gatorcise

    96Gatorcise GC Hall of Fame

    8,765
    1,093
    533
    Aug 6, 2008
    Tampa
    State Attorney files manslaughter charge in Clearwater 'stand your ground shooting'

     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. mutz87

    mutz87 Ain't me VIP Member

    36,024
    2,653
    1,636
    Aug 30, 2014
    • Agree Agree x 3
  19. orangeblue_coop

    orangeblue_coop GC Hall of Fame

    1,695
    348
    313
    Nov 19, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Bazza

    Bazza GC Hall of Fame

    14,962
    3,220
    953
    Jan 2, 2009
    New Smyrna Beach
    He will be acquitted.

    Because of the violent shove to the ground.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1