Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by rivergator, Feb 20, 2019.
18 Mississippi dirt farmers...…
Snopes says unproven because they can't find a source for the flag or button image prior to 2015. The only people making claims that the images are authentic are white racist groups and publications. There are no unbiased corroborated reports as far as I can tell.
I have no idea where you are getting that Dees defended a white supremacist. I have never seen any information stating such, but Dees is a civil rights lawyer. If someone had their civil rights violated and came to him for a case he may have defended that person even if a KKK member either knowingly or unknowingly. Similar to the ACLU.
The implication attempting to be made is that he somehow was supporting the KKK, and that implication is absurd. He has financially bankrupted a number of KKK chapters and aggressively gone after them in spite of attacks against him, his employees and head quarters.
As SPLC senior fellow Mark Potok has pointed out, the hate listings have "nothing to do with criminality or violence or any kind of guess we're making about 'this group could be dangerous.' It is strictly ideological." The SPLC adds the names of peaceful, articulate conservatives to its list of skinheads, neo-Nazis and racists in order to deplatform, defund and delegitimize patriotic conservatives by portraying them as insidious, evil haters. That's a hateful thing to do. That's why so many conservatives and even liberals see the SPLC as a dangerous hate group. Once you get on the hate list you can become a target for violent anarchists like Antifa.
Suppose an organization put you on a "hate list" that included Antifa, NAMBLA and radical Islamists in order to delegitimize you and cripple your means of making a living. Suppose this organization worked with the FBI and local law enforcement, said bad untrue things about you to the MSM, pressured Visa, MasterCard and PayPal to harm your business and made you a target of skinheads and neo-Nazis. Would you be comparing this group to Save the Children?
You can read about Dees's representation of KKK member Claude Henley at Wiki Morris Dees.
it's been explained to you more than once: The SPLC hate group list is not just about violence. It doesn't include carjackers and rapists, for example. It's about groups that target specific groups of people.
Seriously, what part of that do you not understand?
I did. And it is pretty clear that as a young man, he made a mistake and came to realize that and completely changed his law practice to the one that I am familiar with, which has been fighting for civil rights for oppressed minorities for a half century now.
From the article you mention...
The SPLC defines "hate groups" as those that "have beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutsble characteristics", meaning, one would think, race, nationality, sexual orientation, religion, ethnicity and so on.
Note the use of the word "typically." The SPLC also hates many groups atypically, chiefly for ideological reasons one might guess. For example, if a group or individual is concerned about terrorists jihadis or Sharia oppression the SPLC is not above labeling them as being Islamophobic haters. I gave examples in post #71. I could give many more.
If s group opposes illegal immigration and amnesty for illegals that would make them "anti-immigrant" in the eyes of many leftists and subject to be included on the ASPLC hate list.
Some groups oppose gay marriage for religious reasons. Do they belong on a "hate list"?
Using one of your examples of what constitutes a hate group, a group opposing illegal immigration and amnesty for illegal aliens would not be by definition a hate group. If the same group advocated that agenda based on the narrative that a significant percentage of illegals are drug smugglers, gang members, rapists, murderers, terrorists and human traffickers could be classified as a hate group because the narrative is false and the perception is that the overwhelming majority of illegals are of one ethnic group, specifically Latino. The difference is that advocating a policy position in and of itself does not make an organization a hate group. Advocating the same position based racial, ethnic or religious stereotypes and/or focusing on specific religious, racial or ethnic groups would.
your use of 'atypically' makes no sense there.
Yes, if someone routinely opposes Muslims simply because they are Muslim, that would qualify, don't you think? And I addressed post 71 in some detail.
I imagine that would depend on how they do it.
I remember an interview where Bill Clinton was asked about the confederate flag buttons and he stated that that the campaign never used such imagery in any form. Not important really, although I think I think I read that Donald Trump praised dictators for having the ability to get things done. If I remember correctly he said that while many dictators do horrible things, sometimes doing horrible things is necessary to achieve what's best.
Should I provide any proof of what I remember? Or will you just take my word for it?
Found it funny this was on my twitter feed as promoted (paid). Algorithm based on who I follow I assume.
I totally take your word for it. II'll withdraw what I said about the Clinton-Gore Confederate flag being displayed by Democrat campaign.
And nothing on fox? Hanity? Tucker?
Just check out Dear Leader’s tweets for why many of his followers are full of hate. He encourages division and depends on it to keep their support.
Dees changed his law practice so much that his entire legal staff resigned in 1986 because this Direct Marketing Hall of Fame "huckster" was unfairly targeting mainstream law abiding peaceful conservatives and not doing enough to help poor people. Dees lined his pockets while moving money to the Caymans and Bermuda. Lefty Yale Law professor Stephen Bright sent a letter to Dees in 1996 in which he attacked Dees for being a "fraud" and a "con man." Bright denounced Dees for "your failure to respond to the desperate needs of the poor and powerless despite your millions upon millions, your fund-raising techniques, and the fact that you spend so much, accomplish so little, and promote yourself so shamelessly."
Jane Wypijewski in the left-wing Nation: "No one has been more assiduous in inflating the profile of [hate] groups than [SLPC's] millionaire huckster Morris Dees..."
Dees propagates hate to line his pockets. He attacks mainstream conservatives who don't share his far-left views. Very hateful.
When the SPLC says they "typically" have a certain criteria for identifying hate groups that implies that they have other "atypical" rules for listing other groups, which I suspect include the following:
---the group promotes Christian values
---the group is concerned about keeping our population stable to protect the environment
---the group is concerned with letting radical Sharia supremacists into America who want to make America Islamic and who would prefer to be ruled by Sharia instead of U.S. Constitution
---group that is concerned with border security and not giving amnesty to illegals
---group is conservative
And so on. Very hateful way to operate, but oh so very profitable.
If I were trying to identify hate groups, those are definitely some things I'd look for. Sounds pretty smart IMO. Where do I donate?
Once again the criticism of Dees from the left seems to be based on his success as a fundraiser, not the substance of what the SPLC actually does. In addition to the facility of Dees as a fundraiser Bright seems to be suggesting that he should be donating the dollars that he has raised to fighting poverty rather than using it to fight hate groups.
Since you mentioned it, this is why three members of Dees' legal staff resigned in 1986.
Not sure that you would be a big fan of his even if he devoted more the Center's resources to affirmative action, voting rights and criminal justice.
Very good points made. Thanks.