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Shooting at a synagogue

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by oragator1, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    They are still Jewish. I don’t want to get into theological debates or disputations here. Let’s just leave this at a really misguided move by a the VP.
     
  2. NavyGator93

    NavyGator93 All American

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    Don’t need to explain yourself to me, I wasn’t the one to call you out. Good to know you have no response to your inaccurate post.
     
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  3. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Jews for Jesus = Vegetarians for Meat
     
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  4. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't know how to respond to "They are still Jewish." I do know that I shudder any time I see one of them carrying a Torah scroll or wearing a tallit.
     
  5. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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  6. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

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    Are they? Seems more they are trying to co-opt Judaism in some confused way.
     
  7. It is amazing, the one-for-one tautology between globalism and opposition to Christianity.

    It is like you can't have one without the other.

    i will carry it a step further: globalism is SATANIC.
     
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  8. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Maybe they're Jewish culturally and maybe they can be considered Jewish by virtue of birth, but the religion that they practice really isn't Judaism. If anything Messianic Judaism is a hybrid religion. Their services are Jewish in nature, they wear tallit and kipot during their services which are more Jewish than Christian and they observe (to varying degrees like conventional American Jews depending on denomination) Shabbat on Saturday rather the Sabbath on Sunday like Christians however when it comes to some of their core beliefs, e.g. the concept of original sin and the belief that Jesus is the Messiah they are much more Christian than Jewish.
     
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  9. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    Apparently they're more Republican culturally as well. ;)

    At least this guy is.
     
  10. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Politically they're Evangelical Christians and apparently are the same politically as other Evangelicals.
     
  11. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    So a chunk of them have their faith strongly grounded in partisan politics. Gotcha.
     
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  12. wgbgator

    wgbgator Extremely Online Premium Member

    Seems like if I can convert to Judaism, and be considered Jewish, someone could just as easily leave the faith and not be considered as such. There are a set of practices which define the identity, being Christian definitely isn't one of them!
     
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  13. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

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    I would interpret their wearing the tallit and kipot and observing Shabbat on Saturdays is more @ window dressing. It is pretty astounding that Pence would invite them as representatives of Judaism. There is something way off in his thinking, as as a Christian and VP . It's as if his goal was to offend Jews.
     
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  14. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    Is it possible he just didn't know any better?

    Not that ignorance is a great excuse, but it seems to be how much of this administration operates... on a variety of issues.
     
  15. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

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    It's possible, but I think a fair argument to make is to expect that he should have, or someone in the administration should have.
     
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  16. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Their religious practice is not Jewish. But, being born Jewish, they are still Jews. They just do not understand their religion.
     
  17. OaktownGator

    OaktownGator Guardian of the GC Galaxy Moderator VIP Member

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    Sounds kinda like a POTUS who is sworn to uphold the US constitution, but just doesn't understand it. ;)
     
  18. mutz87

    mutz87 Complexified VIP Member

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    PETA for animal slaughter.
     
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  19. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

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    Here is an explanation from a military chaplain.

    Opinion | Why Pence's actions in Pittsburgh were so insulting to Jews, according to a rabbi


    The problem is that this is theologically impossible. The belief that Jesus was the messiah is the defining core belief of Christianity, and completely outside the realm of Judaism, all of whose mainstream branches believe that the Mashiach has not yet come.

    To be clear, a messianic Jew has as much right to her or his beliefs as I have to mine. It is admittedly unsettling to many Jews that the observances of messianic Jews look so, well, Jewish, including Jewish ritual items and Hebrew prominently, while being so based in Christian theology. But unsettling is not in and of itself offensive. It is also worth stating that this discomfort with messianic Judaism is not a discomfort with Christianity. Christianity, which looks like Christianity, is simply a different religion from Judaism and to be respected as a fellow faith tradition. Where messianic Judaism becomes much more troubling is when it seems to pass itself off as authentic Judaism, and especially when this resemblance is used to evangelize to Jews and try to pull them away from Judaism.


    In inviting Rabbi Loren Jacobs to the stage to address the crowd at his Michigan rally — and by referring to Jacobs as “a leader in the Jewish community” — Pence erred on many levels. First off, Pence was simply incorrect. Jacobs may (or may not) be a leader in the messianic Jewish community, which most Jews would consider a Christian community, but he is not now and has never been a leader in the Jewish community.

    Even more offensive is the fact that Jacobs, like many if not most messianic Jews, believes that Jews who do not accept Jesus are destined for hell. Jews can only be saved by accepting Jesus as their lord and savior, according to Jacobs, and getting them to do so is the central mission of Jews for Jesus. In other words, the “rabbi” Pence asked to share a blessing for unity believes that the only way for Jews to reach heaven is to stop being Jews.
     
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  20. wgbgator

    wgbgator Extremely Online Premium Member

    I have a suspicion Jews for Jesus exists only for the joke immunity. They're pulling a reverse Tim Whatley.

    [​IMG]