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Rick Santorum: "We birthed a nation from nothing. I mean, there was nothing here."

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by DoubleDown11, Apr 26, 2021.

  1. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    They had a couple of strong leaders that eventually split over whether to capitulate to the US government and move west or fight the good fight to remain on their homeland. One of the leaders, John Ross, was an educated eloquent man (forget where he was educated) who traveled to Washington and negotiated with a few different Presidents in an attempt to get the best deal possible (deals that were systematically broken) for his people and to have the US pay for the lands, houses, businesses and crops that were taken and the other leader was The Ridge who did not speak English and led the faction that wanted to live in more traditional ways and fought to stay in the east. The Cherokees had several meetings attended by thousands to mull over these choices. That division was where we get the Eastern band of Cherokees that today have a reservation and lands around the Smoky Mtns and after the Trail of Tears, the band of Cherokees in Ark, and OK.

    edit: sorry for the flood of info but recently read a couple of books on the subject.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
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  2. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Legend

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    In fairness, I do not know anyone who thinks what happened o the Native Americans was ok. It was tragic, despicable and sad.
    I look at the reservations now and see so much crime, drugs, abuse….it is a sad outcome for a group of people that where proud, strong, and independent Now many seem dependent on government, drugs, alcohol or a combination.
     
  3. thomadm

    thomadm Premium Member

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    Why we are talking about the 1600 -1700s today is beyond retarded. Who the $#%# cares.
     
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  4. AndyGator

    AndyGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Rick Santorum: "We birthed a nation from nothing. I mean, there was nothing here."
     
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  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Without smallpox, there is no way the British or French even attempt a landing on American soil. The native tribes did not have a "standing army" per se, but every male was expected to be a warrior and do his part. British explorers actually went up and down the east coast looking at night for a place to land, but saw campfires as far as the eye could see in both directions. The British cleared the way for a landing in America by trading with natives in canoes, who brought back goods (and smallpox) to the shores. The death toll of native Americans was somewhere between 90-95% of the entire population. It spread like wildfire inland from the coast.

    The British were finally able to land in modern-day Massachusetts, where the local population was decimated by smallpox. They survived a particularly harsh winter by digging up the graves of the dead natives and eating the food items that the surviving natives buried with the dead for them to take into the afterlife. They called it "Providence" that saved them. The British made a wary friendship with the surviving natives. At one point, they decided to impress the natives with their firepower, because the natives were starting to negotiate a little more aggressively. They challenged the natives to a contest to see who could shoot their weapons at a tree most effectively at 20-30 yards. The natives, totally unimpressed with the challenge, fired the first arrow into the tree, dead center. The British, terrified out of their wits by such deadly accuracy, and knowing that it would take them many tries to hit the tree with their muskets, refused to participate any further and called it a draw. Losing the contest (and having the natives fall down laughing at their efforts) would have been more than embarrassing--it would have been suicidal, as much as they were outnumbered by natives. It would have been futile for any European army at that time to invade America without smallpox doing most of the work for them. There is no question that the natives at that time had better military technology than the British.
     
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  6. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    A wise man once said “those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.

    A really dumb orange man once said, “who cares, I know more than the generals”.
     
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  7. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    When was the DoI and the Constitution formulated and signed? So long ago that they no longer have any meaning for modern day cats I guess. And besides who the #%*+ cares about such matters?
     
  8. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

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    The earlier Viking settlers gave up, in part, because the Native Americans were too much for them to handle.
     
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  9. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    A number of us whom define ourselves as "Human Beings".
     
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  10. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Rick Santorum does - that is what he was conveying
     
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  11. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Recommend you research "MANN's" BRILLIANT books 1491 and 1493.

    You may have been right, more and more evidence is coming to light that native American populations were far far greater than previously thought, as in 10X or even more.

    Disease vector was a catastrophe beyond the pail for the natives.
     
  12. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Legend

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    I don’t think so. There is a difference in thinking there was a lack of civilization when Europeans got here and thinking that the catastrophe we wrecked on the Native Americans was all ok. Is the first belief ignorant? Absolutely. Is it admitting that you think genocide is fine and dandy and giving smallpox to babies is ok and that the trail of tears was just no big deal? No.
     
  13. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Oh I think he chose his words carefully. He meant it, just not in the conventional sense. It's a theological construction. In his worldview, the only legitimate cultures are Christian cultures. So when he says that we supplanted them and that there are no vestige of their culture, that's what he means. In terms of the means to get there, I'm not saying he specifically approving what we did, but they are really of the mindset that the forces of so-called Christianity, which is how they view it, did a favor to the existing indigenous people giving him the opportunity of Christianity, even at the loss of significant life.
     
  14. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Legend

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    That’s an awful lot of supposition and projection into what an individual was thinking instead of what was said. Of course you are welcome to your opinion.
     
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  15. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

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    It's kind of baffling that you can't understand why anyone would be the least bit interested not only in our nation's history, but in current perceptions of it.
     
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  16. metalcoater

    metalcoater GC Hall of Fame

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    Wouldn't that be British history?
     
  17. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    We won the war. ;)

    At best that’s now shared history not “British History”. American history didn’t just materialize out of nowhere in 1776. That is why elementary textbooks and most surveys of American history I can recall typically start out with the history of the colonies. Because that’s all American history too, I see no harm in giving a nod to even earlier human civilizations in North America. People like Santorum see that knowledge as a threat.
     
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  18. metalcoater

    metalcoater GC Hall of Fame

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    So, America brought small pox, and decimated Native Americans.
     
  19. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    That’s nothing to do with anything I said, but yeah pretty much. Settlers from Europe brought all kinds of “new” diseases with them. They were all novel viruses to a continent of people that had never been exposed to them.
     
  20. surfin_bird

    surfin_bird Junior

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    No it would not be British history. North America (i.e., USA) was "colonized" by the native Americans (indigenous people) first followed by the English, French, Spanish, Italians, Irish, Dutch, Germans, Russians, Belgians, Norwegians, Scotts, and Asians, etc. with much of the labor provided by Africans and indentured servants (Europeans) following arrival.