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Republicans Are Upset About The National Debt Again

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by studegator, Jan 19, 2021.

  1. gator7_5

    gator7_5 GC Hall of Fame

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    You know nothing about my finances. I will
    say my effective rate goes largely unchanged. My stance comes from real world experience with federal and state tax money being flushed down the shitter (if only every American could see what I’ve seen...) Bad enough that it makes my stomach turn thinking about it decades later. I shouldn’t need to defend the stance that government gets enough of our money and waste way too much of it, but here we are. Labeled greedy and selfish.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
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  2. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    "They pay for themselves" TM
     
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  3. swampbabe

    swampbabe GC Hall of Fame

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    Nobody said that the government doesn't waste money, they do. My point was that conservatives pretty much only care about the deficit when a Democrat is in office.
     
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  4. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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  5. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    A Van Down By the River
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  6. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    Should we have taken the myriad of Democrats who called the deficit projections from Trump's tax cut "dangerous" seriously? It's all political BS. If you want to scold the GOP for this, then scold the Democrats as well because they are just as guilty of this crap when they don't control the spending.
     
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  7. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    Or posters who haven't posted in here in a long time showing back up to gripe about the deficit. So so predictable
     
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  8. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    Maybe? Depends on who, really. Pelosi loves Paygo and kept it even in the majority, and the last big thing the Democrats passed (the ACA) they were obsessed with getting a CBO score showing it had neutral deficit impact. Obama was ready to sign on to a grand bargain including SS cuts. Don't get me wrong, all those things were stupid and to their detriment (they could have avoided plenty of blowback by not taxing salons, including a mandate or taxing Cadillac plans or whatever), but they do seem to take beltway fiscal responsibility scolds seriously. Put it this way, the only party that would ever bite on a "grand bargain" while in power are the Democrats, particularly when the ones that are basically 1990s Republicans are ascendant.
     
  9. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    Pelosi made a comment after the tax law was passed and said the deficit was dangerous. She went on to say that part of the cut affecting the wealthiest taxpayers should be rolled back and that revenue could pay for infrastructure spending. How does that make sense? The ACA ended up not being budget neutral and the CBO scoring it neutral had a lot to do with the assumptions given to them. It was pretty obvious that their projected rate of people buying their own plans was way overestimated. Not only that, but Obama caved to special interests like repealing the bit that made unions pay a Cadillac tax on their healthcare plans. I think later they dumped the medical device tax as well.

    I don't disagree with MMT in terms of how it views deficits and debt. The whole argument about our debt getting too high and we will go bankrupt is overstated and misunderstood by most. Where I think MMT falls down is replacing the fed with politicians so that the economic decisions are tied to politics and political goals. There's no way the morons on the hill effectively manage inflation.
     
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  10. orangeblue_coop

    orangeblue_coop GC Hall of Fame

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    The past 4 years showed that Republicans really don't care about the debt. They can spare me with the fake concern.
     
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  11. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    If you didn't take the deficit seriously, why would you take the trouble to worry about CBO scored? Why pass all the stupid taxes in the ACA in the first place? It did nothing to please Republicans who led the charge to repeal most of those taxes, along with big Democratic donors impacted by those taxes. Its pretty obvious that paying for things in budget neutral terms is bad politics, no one gives a crap about budget neutrality. But clearly the wonks in the party take it seriously, despite the political costs involved. Hopefully they've learned a lesson that deficits don't matter that much, and austerity is theft. That's not to say they should lower taxes and increase spending like Republicans always do, but the obsession with achieving some kind of aesthetic efficiency between spending & revenue is not particularly useful, politically. Nor should anyone pretend that programs magically pay for themselves, like republicans believe tax cuts do.
     
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  12. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    Most people in Washington believe the deficit is something to be worried about and should. MMT isn't an accepted theory in the world of economics nor been applied to governance. The people that are pushing it are Bernie and AOC who have huge projects that need to be funded somehow. I think the responsible thing is to try to pay for it as you go, but even as big as the ACA is the shortfalls didn't make inflation explode. The Republican ideas that tax cuts pay for themselves are stupid of course, however raising taxes to pay for programs with limited economic benefit is a drag on the economy as well. The fed has been desperately trying to manage inflation up to 2% with stimulus and 0 interest rates for a decade now and that has only had limited effect. Raising taxes significantly is going to offset whatever we get from the stimulus.
     
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  13. g8trjax

    g8trjax GC Hall of Fame

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    But now they can't do a damn thing about it, thank gawd!!! Happy days, I've got a freshman at UF.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. GrandPrixGator

    GrandPrixGator Premium Member

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    Regardless of whether Republicans are hypocrites or Democrats aren't concerned, I do think fiscal responsibility should be a concern. And right now that seems to be the only thing anyone does...say it's a concern. No real decision-making on the financial impacts of "ideas/programs" and if it's idea worth choosing or even if it would make better sense for the "ideas/programs" to happen at the local or state level. We can't have it all...regardless of what some may say.
     
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  15. RIP

    RIP Election Prediction Savant VIP Member

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    BITCOIN!!!!
     
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  16. WESGATORS

    WESGATORS Moderator VIP Member

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    I don't know about his voting record, but this is what he said a year and a half ago...

    Budget Deficit on Path to Surpass $1 Trillion Under Trump (Published 2019)

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
     
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  17. AgingGator

    AgingGator GC Hall of Fame

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    First, I’m an independent, not a republican.

    Second, there was nothing insane about it. When Trump took office, the US Federal Debt was already $61,000 per citizen. That number was already orders of magnitude above what any feasible tax increase and spending cut would retire in any of our lifetimes. It actually couldn’t even get it down into a manageable range.

    To me, the only feasible solution was to grow the economy while operating with a balanced budget and retire that debt with the revenue growth from a much larger tax base.

    The COVID hysteria actually took that off the table already by increasing the debt to $85,000 per citizen. Check what the average person pays in taxes and see how long it will take to pay that off even if spending was reduced.

    All of us need to realize the reality of what has happened here. The politicians have been peeing on our backs and telling us it’s raining for 30+ years. There is no way to pay down the debt. They will just print money until the house of cards collapses. Don’t worry about them, they have helped themselves all these years and will be fine.

    Anyone planning on retiring in the next few years better have around $1.5M in their investments, and the bulk of that better be in real estate and quality stocks of companies whose revenues and earnings will grow with inflation from a de-valued currency. And don’t plan on much left to leave to the kids. Pensions (for the few who still have them) aren’t indexed and Social Security COLAs will not keep up with the coming currency devaluation. People are going to be hitting their principle hard just to get by.

    Now I’ll sit back and let the MMT crowd tell us not to worry. All is well!
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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  18. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Thank you Aging.
    However in my estimation the Neoliberal con fosted upon us by Ronald Regan, that conservative hero, is the reason that the "House of Cards" for most Americans is about to collapse.

    Read: Requiem for the American Dream by Noam Chomsky for reference.
     
  19. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    That's a bold move to oppose wasteful spending. That flies directly in the face of the Pro wasteful spending caucus
     
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  20. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Ask Ted Yoho or the ex-President.
    Both of them thought we should repudiate the debt and undermine the full faith and credit of the United States government, perhaps the world's most valuable asset. So I am assuming they had a plan.

    Not to mention that the status of the dollar as the reserve currency for the world will likely on the long-term decline quicker as a result of the Iran sanctions regime, which for the first time used the US banking system against allies and required Europeans to come up with special purpose vehicles. That kind of stuff is not forgotten and in the long-term will lead to a move away from the dollars the world's reserve currency. Right now there is no reasonable alternative given that Europe doesn't have actual fiscal and monetary union and no one wants to get in with the RMB. But it will not be forgotten in the long-term will do a lot towards eroding the dollar.
     
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