Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!
  1. Folks, some of you have asked if we were trimming our forums since there are no sports at the moment. We’re going to keep everything open on the forums to provide a sense of normalcy here. It’s our hope Gator Country can be a place of comfort for you during these crazy times. Be safe my friends and take care. -Ray and the GC staff. GO GATORS IN AL KINDS OF WEATHER!

    PS. If you happen to find yourself in tight financial circumstances with regards to renewing here please reach out to us. We’d be happy to help sort it out.

Prosecutors ask for 7-9 years for Roger Stone

Discussion in 'GatorNana's Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by rivergator, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. g8rjd

    g8rjd GC Hall of Fame

    7,372
    310
    188
    Jan 20, 2008
    Tallahassee, FL
    Apprendi and it’s progeny prohibit a judge from going above the “statutory maximum” without additional admitted or jury found facts. The “statutory maximum” for purposes of the federal guidelines is the top of the guidelines, here 87 months.

    I know. It’s weird, but Apprendi has been a big adjustment for the past 20+ years..
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    7,607
    519
    243
    Apr 3, 2007
    Ken White predicted less. He says ABJ is known for downward departures and that she would be mindful that Manafort got 7.5 years for far worse, so would feel then need to make it substantially less than Manafort
     
  3. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    7,607
    519
    243
    Apr 3, 2007
    As long as I'm quoting Ken White, he also said that he believes that Defense attorneys will begin using what will soon be called "Stone Brief" based upon the sentencing memo, i.e., the sentencing guidelines require x, but that's extreme - the guidelines are too harsh. I don't practice criminal defense, but apparently you usually have to argue what guideline appear to "score." Now you can also argue that the guidelines are just too harsh
     
  4. g8rjd

    g8rjd GC Hall of Fame

    7,372
    310
    188
    Jan 20, 2008
    Tallahassee, FL
    That argument may not resonate with a lot of judges. When a judge downward departed, the USA’s office is required to note it. Those stats are used when the prospect of elevation comes around.
     
  5. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    7,607
    519
    243
    Apr 3, 2007
    I defer to you, as I don't this area. Just quoting Ken White from the "All the President's Lawyers" podcast.

    I should have also said that I also think ABJ was a bit intimidated, even if she thinks she wasn't. The pressure worked.
     
  6. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    7,607
    519
    243
    Apr 3, 2007
  7. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    5,722
    1,829
    1,123
    Nov 25, 2017
    That is a fact. As a buddy of mine said, “I have a great sentencing memo to use,” but I am afraid for the country for my kids.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    5,722
    1,829
    1,123
    Nov 25, 2017
    When the guidelines were first past, they were passed to promote uniform sentencing and were binding. The Supreme Court held that tying a judge’s hands to preclude downward departures in particular is unconstitutional and the guidelines are now just a guide. But, most judges follow them anyway. In the Mueller convictions, we have seen downward departures. It may not seem like it to Stone and the fringe Trump base is outraged, but Stone got the luck of the draw as far as sentencing goes. I do not believe Judge Berman was intimidated. In general, federal sentencing and the guidelines are too long anyway. And in any event, Stone’s disgusting behavior was politicized and a juror attacked for having political views. The attack on the jury foreman by Trump and a lynch mob right wing press and bloggers is sick. We do not have a system where jurors are disqualified by political views. Jurors represent a cross section of the community. Stone was not entitled to a jury of Trump voters or supporters.
     
  9. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    7,607
    519
    243
    Apr 3, 2007
    He has now moved to recuse Judge ABJ.

    To be clear, when I say intimidated, I don’t mean on a conscious level. I’m sure she thought she was discharging her duties regularly, and she is known as a more lenient sentencer. But I also think it’s easy to internalize and rationalize the less onerous path, and she had to know that going anywhere above there would result in even more acrimony and attacks, not to mention physical danger. I think Robert Mueller also blinked, although I also think that we will learn that he was restrained by Barr in ways that have not yet been made public
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  10. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    5,722
    1,829
    1,123
    Nov 25, 2017
    Because she said the jury acted with integrity. After reading Stone’s motion. Good Luck.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. g8rjd

    g8rjd GC Hall of Fame

    7,372
    310
    188
    Jan 20, 2008
    Tallahassee, FL
    That ended...poorly.


    Brutal order.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    74,143
    36,039
    3,128
    Apr 3, 2007
    Miami, OK
     
  13. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    7,607
    519
    243
    Apr 3, 2007
    The last paragraph. Ouch.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    5,722
    1,829
    1,123
    Nov 25, 2017
    That is exactly what the motion was. An appeal to the fringe right and ammunition for Trump. Like much that has been filed in this case and in Flynn’s case. No legal significance, but appeals to people who think there is a political litmus test to sit on a jury.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator

    Apr 8, 2007
    Fox News is still going hard on the case.

    Homepage | Media Matters for America
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

    8,414
    453
    358
    Apr 8, 2007
    So if I show up in a DNC t shirt will I get excused from jury duty? conversely if I show up in maga shirt they will be sure to keep me......
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. duchen

    duchen VIP Member

    5,722
    1,829
    1,123
    Nov 25, 2017
    Assaults on the independence of the judiciary are the foundations of a dictatorship. Trump did it again today during the hearing; and the results of the hearing are a no brainer.

    Even other jurors testified how fair the juror was as a foreperson; and political views are not disqualifying for cause.

    The attacks by Trump and right wing media are a dangerous disgrace.

    The politicization of justice.

    Met with applause by people who prefer the methods of dictators who think like they do.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
  18. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    7,607
    519
    243
    Apr 3, 2007
    If the jury foreperson had a different first name, they wouldn't keep running with it