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Poll: Nearly half of California voters say they can't afford living in the state

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by flgator2, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    Yeah and likewise I hear how the Democrats effectively invented Apple and made California a beacon of success while none want to engage in explaining how those same policies and ideals turned Detroit into a "shithole city". Not everything boils down to ideology dude.
     
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  2. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    The tech sector set up in Silicon Valley long before the 1980s. It started with Stanford and military technology. Then HP. Then Intel. By the time Apple was being formed, that area was already the tech center.

    HP clearly arose from Stanford and the educational system. There is a feedback loop between the industries and the educational system.
     
  3. ursidman

    ursidman GC Hall of Fame

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    And the best and brightest in the country like living and working in liberal Seattle and San Fran. area?
     
  4. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    Again, I don't disagree with that. I am saying that what we know as Silicon Valley today largely came about because Steve Jobs lived there, not because he surveyed all the states in the country and decided that the California educational system would provide his future behemoth company the workers it needed. A few entrepreneurs made it big there and others followed just like in Seattle where an industry sprung up around Microsoft. New York city became the financial center of the country because the markets located there, not because of the proximity to the Ivy League.
     
  5. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    Sure, there's a lot to like about those places. I grew up in Seattle when it was a lot less liberal and enjoyed all it had to offer. At the salaries they earn, I don't think they would be hating life if they lived in Florida or the Carolinas instead as the same high end lifestyle would have sprung up around them.
     
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  6. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    And what I am saying is that Steve Jobs doesn't exist as Steve Jobs without Silicon Valley already existing. Wozniak and Jobs worked together at HP and Jobs had Wozniak help him when he worked at Atari.

    Silicon Valley exists because Stanford and the military worked together on early technology. That led to the development of the valley, which helped lead to Jobs and Wozniak finding the opportunity to found Apple there as well.
     
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  7. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

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    I'm still trying to figure out how Microsoft is responsible for Starbucks and Costco.
     
  8. gatorpika

    gatorpika Premium Member

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    Agree Stanford played a part as I said before and posted the article about the history. But Jobs didn't have to start up shop there or the many other companies that came after. And he certainly didn't consider the university system as a key factor when he was working out of his garage. Gates started his tech ecosystem without a bunch of highly regarded universities around him. industries tend to spring up in a location out of luck because that's where the guys that make it big decided to start. In any case, Stanford is private so the whole "the California government's commitment to education is responsible for the tech industry" narrative wouldn't apply to it.
     
  9. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    But what I am saying is that Jobs, if he happened to be from a small town in Mississippi would have had to have gone to some place like Silicon Valley or, more likely, never would have founded something like Apple. He founded Apple partially because he was surrounded by the entire early ecosystem. Jobs asked Bill Hewlett for a job when he was 13 (Hewlett was there due to Stanford). He worked with Wozniak when he was a student at Berkeley.

    No idea whether he considered it a major factor. However, it was. Without the educational ecosystem, no HP. Wozniak probably isn't hanging around town. No Atari.

    It is certainly not true for Silicon Valley. Also, I don't know the history of Microsoft as much,but I found this interesting:

    They formed in a different location and moved specifically due to staffing issues.

    Stanford is private, although its history is entirely wrapped up in the state government of California. It was founded by a former governor and senator (who also established their first college to train teachers in...San Jose). Also, Stanford has a bit of a special place in California government. They were exempted from state taxes early on in their history as part of the constitution, allowing the Stanford family to put tons of resources into the university.
     
  10. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 GC Hall of Fame

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    And yet they feel zero compunction about who they vote into office. I guess they haven't figured out that they themselves are to blame for their situation.
     
  11. fastsix

    fastsix Premium Member

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    As someone who lives in an area that many consider unaffordable for low wage workers, I can tell you it's caused by the incredible growth were experiencing, not by bad policy decisions by our local leaders. Unless of course you consider policy that leads to incredible growth a bad decision.

    It's be nice if the infrastructure and housing could keep up with the pace of growth, but I'd rather have this situation than the opposite. Population declining, cheap houses, no jobs.

    Housing and roads will eventually catch up to growth, but even when they do that's no guarantee of cheap real estate. I'm not sure when all you Republicans felt entitled to live in places you couldn't afford, but that's not the way the world works. I'd love to live on Lake Washington next to Bill Gates, but you know what? The prices in those neighborhoods are way out of reach for me. Should I whinge about it?
     
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  12. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan GC Hall of Fame

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    It's the law of supply and demand. Even in places with red leadership. I live in a heavy red area and more people are moving in or want to. The result? Three value of my house has doubled in the last 7 years. Good for me, but bad for low wage workers.

    Part of the issue is the Phoenix metro area is still cheaper than CA, while the state produces decent, educated talent with ASU, UA, NAU, and Grand Canyon U all within 2 hours of Phoenix. The result is companies relocate or open up branches in Phoenix, and a person from CA can sell their small house and buy a much larger one in AZ for the same money.

    But there are effects on the locals. The homeless population in Phoenix is on the rise as live in Seattle or SF, low wage workers are being priced out of housing. But it's a problem I'd rather have versus the alternative.
     
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  13. StrangeGator

    StrangeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Eugene Kleiner was the pioneer of Silicon Valley going all the way back to the late 50s. His Partner Tom Perkins was the head of R&D at HP in the early 70s. Their firm funded Amazon, Intel, Sun Microsystems, Netscape, Twitter and over a thousand other tech startups.
     
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  14. avogator

    avogator Sophomore

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    If you can make it in California and then sell home and move to a cheaper you live like a king